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  1. #161
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    This thread has taken a turn for the worse. Everyone is polarized and emotional. My whole point is that I don't think either side should be villianized. They each serve a valuable service to society.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  2. #162
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Like I said, earlier, cops have a great responsibility, because the are allowed to use force(violence). They are expected to use it in their jobs. It is part of the job.
    Yes.

    But we expect them to be upholders of the law and justice. They are agents of the legal system, and need to be among the best the citizenry can offer morally.
    Yes.

    I know these are high standards, but if we let them slip, we end up with a lot of people allowed to use force(violence) without any real idea of what moral lines they are crossing when their doing so.
    I'm not saying the officer that used the pepper spray made the best decision on how to handle the situation, but he did make a decision; that is what officers are called to do, in more often than not, "gray" situations. Whether it was the best or optimal decision is the main question in my mind. I feel like the use of force was justifiable, but maybe not optimal (and definitely won't go over well to the casual onlookers). A big problem I see is that I don't think the officer(s) were prepared to deal with this kind of situation and the way the situation was handled displays that. If the school is ready to throw the officers under the bus for the decision they make, they better be damn ready to spend some time extensively researching proper ways to handle these situations for future officers. They should be outlining it in black and white as best as they can, instead of asking law enforcement to step in to remove the students, and then administration coming down on them when it came time to implement methods of physical force. -- The officer knew he was being video taped. He knew what he was doing, but it may not have been the best decision in hindsight. I'm pretty convinced that the officer wasn't reacting maliciously (he's a war Vet and a police officer at the campus, as well as Sacramento PD who has been commended/honored on a few occasions for his good police work) , he just went for a tool at his disposal and in return it has backfired on him. It's always easy to Monday quarterback these incidents though, where the full picture and all the facts aren't presented to us clearly.

    Imagine biomedical engineer's and scientists who don't consider the moral implications of what they do. Imagine civil engineer without regard to the fact that mistakes they make can lead to countless deaths. Imagine airplane mechanics being nonchalant about their work. Imagine Doctor's not paying heed to the Hippocratic oath.

    High standards of one type or another are part of being a Pro. This is what society expects. Falling short has dire consequences.

    At the least, the upholders of the laws, have to follow them too.
    We're on the same page here...

  3. #163
    Senior Member Critical Hit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Yes.


    Yes.


    I'm not saying the officer that used the pepper spray made the best decision on how to handle the situation, but he did make a decision; that is what officers are called to do, in more often than not, "gray" situations. Whether it was the best or optimal decision is the main question in my mind. I feel like the use of force was justifiable, but maybe not optimal (and definitely won't go over well to the casual onlookers). A big problem I see is that I don't think the officer(s) were prepared to deal with this kind of situation and the way the situation was handled displays that. If the school is ready to throw the officers under the bus for the decision they make, they better be damn ready to spend some time extensively researching proper ways to handle these situations for future officers. They should be outlining it in black and white as best as they can, instead of asking law enforcement to step in to remove the students, and then administration coming down on them when it came time to implement methods of physical force. -- Th officer knew he was being video taped. He knew what he was doing, but it may not have been the best decision in hindsight. It's always easy to Monday quarterback these incidents though, where the full picture and all the facts aren't presented to us clearly.


    We're on the same page here...
    See my earlier post.
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  4. #164
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Non-compliance does not warrant a threat.
    How do you figure? If there is non-compliance, should law enforcement be expected to give up and go home? I see what you're saying, but what is your proposed solution in this incident at the campus?

  5. #165
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Critical Hit View Post
    See my earlier post.
    I've seen it.

  6. #166
    Member cranez's Avatar
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    Not sure if anyone has posted this yet...but if not:

    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK
    "Don't complicate my piece of mind."
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  7. #167
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I have not been pepper sprayed. This is irrelevant. The fact is people were hospitalized. Even if some people handle it well, there have been cases of death from the use of pepper spray.
    In serious asthma sufferers, it has happened. There have also been deaths by batons, jail deaths, rubber bullets, tear gas, and every other use of force. So, why is pepper spray so much different? I would think that if someone has a health condition, they would know better than to refuse to move out of the way of pepper-spray. I stand on the side of personal responsibility. When you decide to remain and not disassemble, you are risking your life. That's the name of the game, and the way it is played.
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  8. #168
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    In serious asthma sufferers, it has happened. There have also been deaths by batons, jail deaths, rubber bullets, tear gas, and every other use of force. So, why is pepper spray so much different? I would think that if someone has a health condition, they would know better than to refuse to move out of the way of pepper-spray. I stand on the side of personal responsibility. When you decide to remain and not disassemble, you are risking your life. That's the name of the game, and the way it is played.
    In my experience, very few people are aware of their health conditions

  9. #169
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    In my experience, very few people are aware of their health conditions
    Then maybe they shouldn't subject themselves to violent use of force.
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  10. #170
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    Then maybe they shouldn't subject themselves to violent use of force.
    Who should?

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