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  1. #131
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    The use of force must be reasonable under the circumstances.
    Seated, non-resistant, etc.

  2. #132
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    The police in question have already been suspended, so anyone supporting them now legally wrong and clinging to their biases.
    Whoops.

  3. #133
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Verbal commands/officer presence is the first stage of police use of force, believe it or not. "Non-resistant" is a terrible way to classify the behavior of the students.

  4. #134
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Yes, the question is: Is pepper spraying excessive in this situation? And my answer is "Absolutely Not". I've been pepper-sprayed, and I'm a 115 lb. delicate little thang. It is not the end of the world. I would rather be pepper-sprayed than hit by a baton or shot with a rubber bullet. It's simply a preference. Would you rather spend the night in jail, or be pepper-sprayed? I'd have to think about it, but I don't consider either the end of the god damn world.

    So who are you to decide which choice I would take, and whether it would be excessive or not? At the end of the day, as I said, the students who willingly sat there apparently believed it was not too excessive to try to get out the situation. I would've run. End of story.
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  5. #135
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gish View Post
    The police in question have already been suspended, so anyone supporting them now legally wrong and clinging to their biases.
    They're on administrative leave while the the board reviews use of force procedures. That is not the same as convicting the officers of any wrong doing.

  6. #136
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Verbal commands/officer presence is the first stage of police use of force, believe it or not. "Non-resistant" is a terrible way to classify the behavior of the students.
    Would you say that these students are violent?

  7. #137
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Verbal commands/officer presence is the first stage of police use of force, believe it or not. "Non-resistant" is a terrible way to classify the behavior of the students.
    It's the only way to characterize the students' behavior.

  8. #138
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Would you say that these students are violent?
    Of course not. I might oppose your viewpoint, but I'm not stupid. Is pepper spray acceptable to use solely under violent situations? Are you suggesting that pepper spray is a violent form of gaining compliance?

  9. #139
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    From a similar tree-hugging case 10 years ago in california the 9th circuit ruled:

    (1) the California Department of Justice had only approved the use of pepper spray on "hostile or violent" subjects; (2) the California Highway Patrol's use of force policy specifically prohibits the use of pepper spray as it was used here; and (3) pepper spray had never before been used in this manner in Humboldt County, the State of California, or anywhere in the nation. They also conceded that Humboldt County's only written policy statement on the proper use of pepper spray described it as a "defensive weapon, " only to be used in "attempting to subdue an attacker or a violently resisting suspect, or under other circumstances which underthe law permit the lawful and necessary use of force . . . by . . . chemical agent."
    http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/...0/1185/564832/
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  10. #140
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Of course not. I might oppose your viewpoint, but I'm not stupid.
    I have to understand your viewpoint. I am naive. Many would argue that the presence of a seated person on a sidewalk could constitute a threat. I believe that we can move past this nuance and justify the use of force, given the circumstances.

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