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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Law enforcement are trained in handling crowds/riots/protests. In their arsenal of available tools to move/hold back defiant people is that thing called Pepper Spray. It serves a purpose. It's not excessive in those situations.
    In this case, that is what is in question. You cannot make a blanket statement that pepper spray is justified to make people compliant. The question was, was it justified in THIS case.

    The people that were actually sitting there in disobedience was small in number. There were other protesters sure (and a whole lot of bystanders).

    I find it hard to believe that the people sitting on the ground in front of them (remember these 11 people were the targets of the arrests) could somehow spring up and surround the officers (what seemed like an equal or higher number of officers) and injure them (with all the protective gear they had on). Is this the scenario the trained officers were trying to avoid?

    I am curious, there have to be guidelines regarding this. To lay-person, this seems like excessive force for sure. If it is policy, the policy needs to be changed. If it was against policy, then well, I am sure there are guid-lines there too.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  2. #102
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  3. #103
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    No, who says they must be arrested? Have you heard of discretion or other means of achieving an end without arrests being made? Sure, there are some offenses that must equal an arrest; for instance here, a domestic abuse offense, SOMEONE HAS to go to Jail, whether that be the father, the mother etc. The reason being that the police don't want to see anyone being killed/beaten after the cops leave the scene.

    Have you heard of absurdity? Attempting to arrest a large crowd of people that refuse to move is not plausible and absolutely absurd.

    One could say beating up an old lady for sitting on the sidewalk is absurd.
    Whoops.

  4. #104
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Taken from a law enforcement source:
    1- People have a right to "peaceably" assemble under the first amendment to the US Constitution.

    2- When their assembly is NOT peaceful, it is unlawful.

    3- The US Supreme court has repeatedly held that blocking traffic, footpaths/sidewalks, business entrances, etc. are NOT considered peaceful, and are therefore unlawful.

    4- These protestors were blocking a path.

    5- The protestors were warned of the unlawfulness of their actions.

    6- The protestors were warned they would be sprayed.

    7- The protestors got sprayed.

    8- Occupy jail

  5. #105
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Taken from a law enforcement source:
    You are an absolute fucking moron and anyone who attempts to give you a reasonable response is insulting themselves.
    Whoops.

  6. #106
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gish View Post
    One could say beating up an old lady for sitting on the sidewalk is absurd.
    Where did an old lady get beaten up? I missed this story.

  7. #107
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gish View Post
    You are an absolute fucking moron and anyone who attempts to give you a reasonable response is insulting themselves.
    All you can do is make personal attacks? How about explaining in decent terms what is moronic about it... I'm just presenting factual information. You don't have to like it, but don't blame me.

  8. #108
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    All you can do is make personal attacks? How about explaining in decent terms what is moronic about it...
    I've given plenty of reasonable responses, each was ignored, while you continue to insult anyone who brings something up as being 'naive'. Seriously, You probably just want a moustache ride from Officer Riotgear.
    Whoops.

  9. #109
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gish View Post
    I've given plenty of reasonable responses, each was ignored, while you continue to insult anyone who brings something up as being 'naive'. Seriously, You probably just want a moustache ride from Officer Riotgear.
    Yes, please!

    Seriously though, I've been occasionally making posts from my phone but am now at a computer. If there's something in specific you want me to address, re-quote it.

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Taken from a law enforcement source:
    Lol. This had different wording, not even a few seconds ago. What was the source this came from?

    Also, I don't think they were warned of the spray itself. They were warned about the use of force, and arrest.

    And again, there weren't a lot of them that were blocking the pathway. I've been on that pathway, it's not that wide.

    This is not a all cops are bad vs. all protesters are bad debate. The question is quite simply, "was it excessive force?"

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

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