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  1. #91
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    This. Keep in mind they were in riot gear.

    Saying the the possible injury of the officer outweighed the possible injury or complication as a result of pepper spray use seems ridiculous, considering:
    1) there were 2 cases of complications from the pepper spray,
    2) all the people that were breaking the law were sitting down, the rest were just students watching. If I had been at school at that time, I may have been one of the curious folks checking out what was going on.
    3) in the video, it didn't even look like the people refusing to move outnumbered the police (almost the opposite)

    Quite frankly, I think the police need to re-think the worst-case scenario training policy, because that puts the officers in a paranoid mindset, and leads directly to the use of excessive force and escalation (the worst-case scenario becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy).

    Like I said, they are a privileged few, and should be held to higher standards.
    You evaded my question. How do you think the officers should handle a crowd of people who refuse to disassemble? Of course, the officers were in riot gear. It's a crowd of people who were breaking the law, that they were dealing with. What do you expect 'em to do? Show up in Ghandi costumes?
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  2. #92
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    You evaded my question. How do you think the officers should handle a crowd of people who refuse to disassemble? Of course they were in riot gear. It's a crowd of people who were breaking the law, that they were dealing with.
    The officers should arrest the people breaking the law

    I do not believe that any person here is disputing this

  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    You evaded my question. How do you think the officers should handle a crowd of people who refuse to disassemble? Of course, the officers were in riot gear. It's a crowd of people who were breaking the law, that they were dealing with. What do you expect 'em to do? Show up in Ghandi costumes?
    Oh. Maybe I should have been more clear when I quoted Beargryllz. Arrest them, of course.

    But the way they did the arrest is what is in question.

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  4. #94
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Oh. Maybe I should have been more clear when I quoted Beargryllz. Arrest them, of course.

    But the way they did the arrest is what is in question.
    In many cases, assault (though rarely aggravated assault) preceded arrest

  5. #95
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    People have the right to assemble

    More importantly, how does disobeying a person equate to threatening that person?

    Could you be a good sport and help me to understand. You say that I am naive, but can you help me become not naive?
    Well this for instance shows your naivety... In order to get a crowd to disperse, you think it's plausible or even makes a bit of sense to arrest them all with handcuffs? Yeah, let's handcuff 50-100's of people and load em up in the Caravan! Or, let's just handcuff them all, slap them on the wrist, wag our shame finger and tell them "We mean it, it's really time to go now".

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Handcuffs

    Using weapons in that case would be assault. If there was an immediate threat of bodily harm, the use of weapons could be defended. Has there been a single instance of this circumstance at this protest?

    Not moving when a person tells you to move is not an immediate threat of bodily harm

    Or is it?
    Law enforcement are trained in handling crowds/riots/protests. In their arsenal of available tools to move/hold back defiant people is that thing called Pepper Spray. It serves a purpose. It's not excessive in those situations.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    The current policy seems to be shoot first arrest later, that's wrong. If an officer tossed a teargas grenade into your car for having a bad tail light, you'd probably be pissed off.
    Whoops.

  7. #97
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Well this for instance shows your naivety... In order to get a crowd to disperse, you think it's plausible or even makes a bit of sense to arrest them all with handcuffs? Yeah, let's handcuff 50-100 people and load em up in the Caravan!
    If they are breaking the law, they must be arrested

    If they are not breaking the law, they should not be arrested

    In what other ways am I naive? You have very compelling arguments

  8. #98
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Ok, so you're telling me that if I'm getting pepper-sprayed, I should sit there and take it?
    It looks to me like the people who got sprayed in the beginning of the video asked for it.
    The cops are coming down the line pepper-spraying, and no one moved.
    Apparently they did not CARE to move.
    You can argue that they "should've" been arrested instead, or this "should" happen, but the truth is, when you are breaking the law, expect some form of punishment. If it comes in the form of pepper-spray, well, I think you'll fucking live. Don't be a big baby. They got what they asked for.
    If I would've seen the police aiming that can at me, I think I would've been smart enough to get out of the way.
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  9. #99
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    Ok, so you're telling me that if I'm getting pepper-sprayed, I should sit there and take it?
    It looks to me like the people who got sprayed in the beginning of the video asked for it.
    The cops are coming down the line pepper-spraying, and no one moved.
    Apparently they did not CARE to move.
    You can argue that they "should've" been arrested instead, or this "should" happen, but the truth is, when you are breaking the law, expect some form of punishment. If it comes in the form of pepper-spray, well, I think you'll fucking live. Don't be a big baby. They got what they asked for.
    If I would've seen the police aiming that can at me, I think I would've been smart enough to get out of the way.
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  10. #100
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    If they are breaking the law, they must be arrested

    If they are not breaking the law, they should not be arrested

    In what other ways am I naive? You have very compelling arguments
    No, who says they must be arrested? Have you heard of discretion or other means of achieving an end without arrests being made? Sure, there are some offenses that must equal an arrest; for instance here, in a domestic abuse claim, SOMEONE HAS to go to Jail, whether that be the father, the mother etc. The reason being that the police don't want to see anyone being killed/beaten after the cops leave the scene.

    Have you heard of absurdity? Attempting to arrest a large crowd of people that refuse to move is not plausible and is just absurd.

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