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  1. #51
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    I had a professor once say in the middle of class that Spain would still be in the 19th century if it weren't for Franco.

  2. #52
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    I'm not talking about all regulations. Certain environmental standards, etc are appropriate. But what we have goes well beyond reason. Also, I disagree with you regarding the chinese. For one thing, wealth isn't determined by how many dollars you have. It's determined by productivity. America is wealthy because it's productive, not because we have 60 trillion dollars. A reduction of dollars following an elimination of minimum wage, etc would mean fewer dollars, yes, but also reduced inflation, increased productivity, and a resulting increase in actual wealth. A country which is wealthier than another country can't simultaneously be less wealthy.
    I'm not sure where you get all your info and how you came to all your conclusions... I'm not being snarky. I really want to hear the reasoning behind your assertions.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Benevolent dictatorship is the most efficient form of government. The problem is, as far as the dictatorships go, the benevolent ones tend to be an exception to the rule.
    In light of this post...

    Quote Originally Posted by earthtrekker1775 View Post
    Alexander Tyler having said many years ago:

    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over lousy fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average of the world’s great civilizations before they decline has been 200 years. These nations have progressed in this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to Complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependency; from dependency back again to bondage."

    The two party system is nothing more than a two headed tyrant. We live in a democratic Republic but too many Americans think that we are a democracy. Democracy is a temporary form of govt. It is mob rule and cannot last. It exists between the Republic and the Oligarchy/tyranny.

    I am committed to this nation and the people in it. God help us.
    ...and the fact that I believe in Howe and Strauss' theory of history, and that we're in the midst of a 4th Turning...



    ...and that during our last 4th Turning (the Great Depression), FDR came to power for four terms, I do wonder whether FDR is equivalent to the closest America could come to having a dictator, while still maintaining its democratic political system, and how this might play out differently now that we have Presidential term limits in place.


  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I do wonder whether FDR is equivalent to the closest America could come to having a dictator, while still maintaining its democratic political system.....
    There was also Lincoln in many ways too, and his political opponents certainly never spared him that charge. Hell, Booth invoked tyrannicide after shooting him.

  5. #55
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    ...and that during our last 4th Turning (the Great Depression), FDR came to power for four terms, I do wonder whether FDR is equivalent to the closest America could come to having a dictator, while still maintaining its democratic political system, and how this might play out differently now that we have Presidential term limits in place.

    Oh that's easy. You just nominate party loyalist shills till your heart's content. Its pretty much the equivalnet of having the same guy.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    There was also Lincoln in many ways too, and his political opponents certainly never spared him that charge. Hell, Booth invoked tyrannicide after shooting him.
    Peguy, you're too brilliant.

    I almost mentioned those exact words, but left them out so as not to make it too turgid.

    Thank you for the assist.

    (The Civil War period was the 4th Turning prior to the Great Depression.)

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Oh that's easy. You just nominate party loyalist shills till your heart's content. Its pretty much the equivalnet of having the same guy.


    Could you expand?

    I'm being serious, cuz I think this discussion has the potential to go somewhere.

    The current political gridlock in America is just leading us further into crisis.

    The sooner we deal with our issues, the less pain we'll feel.

    But, as it stands, we're not dealing with the issues.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    :confused:

    Could you expand?

    I'm being serious, cuz I think this is discussion has the potential to go somewhere.

    The current political gridlock in America is just leading us further into crisis.

    The sooner we deal with our issues, the less pain we'll feel.

    But, as it stands, we're not dealing with the issues.
    I'm guessing what Edgar could be suggesting something like Putin's Russia, whilst nominally democratic is so in a "managed" way, basically the President when his two terms are up just picks his successor and miraclously he becomes the next president. In our system it's common for the vice-president to become the major candidate once the president's two terms are up, so the legacy gets continued. Although Bush Sr. was the last vice-president to get elected.

  9. #59
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    I'm not sure where you get all your info and how you came to all your conclusions... I'm not being snarky. I really want to hear the reasoning behind your assertions.
    Which assertion in particular are you wondering about?
    You lose.

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  10. #60
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Oh right, forgot about that. Never you mind. We'll just have to wait until one party wins the house and has their president in charge.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

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