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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    The U.S. is a major net consumer with a global trade deficit of over 33%.
    33% of what?

    The US trade deficit is ~3% of GDP.

  2. #32
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    33% of what?

    The US trade deficit is ~3% of GDP.
    I think she means that US exports are only about 2/3 of our imports. Not 33% of GDP, but 33% lower than imports.
    You lose.

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  3. #33
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Basically this. There's a reason companies go overseas, and it's not always because they're evil, america-haters. There's a pretty strong incentive to move overseas when you have a ridiculously high corporate income tax, very burdensome regulations, etc. There are business leaders out there who will tell you upfront, they'd rather stay in the US. They can keep better control over production, respond faster to changing demands, and can take advantage of a more productive, educated workforce than what is found in many of the countries they move to. But the cost is too great. As a business, you may get more buying american labor, but the value is less; the per-dollar, return on investment is less. The conditions that make that the case are what need to be changed.
    Just to expound on my point, I have no problem with safety and environmental regulations, labor standards, and reasonable tax rates. And to expect American workers to compete toe to toe with Chinese workers is unreasonable, unless, of course, you do not mind Americans working with missing fingers for a few dollars a day and living in shanty towns next the polluted rivers.

    But I do have a serious issue with "special interest groups" and lobbying, because those are just fancy names for legalized bribery.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  4. #34
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Just to expound on my point, I have no problem with safety and environmental regulations, labor standards, and reasonable tax rates. And to expect American workers to compete toe to toe with Chinese workers is unreasonable, unless, of course, you do not mind Americans working for a few dollars a day and living in shanty towns next the polluted rivers.

    But I do have a serious issue with "special interest groups" and lobbying, because those are just fancy names for legalized bribery.
    I'm not talking about all regulations. Certain environmental standards, etc are appropriate. But what we have goes well beyond reason. Also, I disagree with you regarding the chinese. For one thing, wealth isn't determined by how many dollars you have. It's determined by productivity. America is wealthy because it's productive, not because we have 60 trillion dollars. A reduction of dollars following an elimination of minimum wage, etc would mean fewer dollars, yes, but also reduced inflation, increased productivity, and a resulting increase in actual wealth. A country which is wealthier than another country can't simultaneously be less wealthy.
    You lose.

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  5. #35
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    Default Zarathustra's 'Plan for a New America' - Policy Proposal #2

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    I disagree with you on your last point.

    Corporations main purpose is to generate maximum profits within the bounds of the law. It is the politicians job to serve the people's interest, yet they passed laws where it is profitable for corporations to hollow out American industries.
    Did the politicians pass laws to make it this way?

    Or was it more that they didn't pass laws to adequately protect US jobs?

    Or was it that they passed too many laws that made doing business here too expensive?

    It would seem to be some combination of all three of these, but I think the first would be the least of the problem.

    I guess that's unless you're going all the way back to the GATT and the WTO, and the entire creation of our global trade system.

    Because that really is the problem: we've had another 2-3 billion people from Asia and elsewhere enter the global labor force.

    There are some major realignments that will almost inevitably occur because of that, and America will feel that pain.

    The only way I think we can soften the blow of these economic realities is the way Warren Buffet suggested.

    Back in 2003, he wrote about Thriftsville and Squanderville in Fortune magazine (LINK).

    In it, he talked about the idea of Import Certificates.

    They utilize market mechanisms.

    Balance the trade deficit.

    Raise tax revenue.

    Win. Win. Win.

    #Winning.

    / Zarathustra's 'Plan for a New America', Policy Proposal #2
    Last edited by Zarathustra; 11-29-2011 at 07:06 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    I think she means that US exports are only about 2/3 of our imports. Not 33% of GDP, but 33% lower than imports.
    Yeah, I believe that's what she meant, I just thought it was problematic not to clarify.

    For the record, though, I think our exports are 3/4 of our imports.

    And, thus, imports are 33% more than exports.

  7. #37
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yeah, I believe that's what she meant, I just thought it was problematic not to clarify.

    For the record, though, I think our exports are 3/4 of our imports.

    And, thus, imports are 33% more than exports.
    That would make them 25% greater, not 33%.
    You lose.

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  8. #38
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    I don't disagree with this. That said, politicians can be bought, especially considering the nickel and dime salaries they get for running their country. So who in their right mind would want to be a politician when they can quadruple or greater, their income through the private sector? You either have a personal agenda or are too stupid to make it in the private sector.
    Well, I was hoping they would be policitians because they actually wanted to make the country a better place. You know, just like many young men become soldiers - to serve their country, and not for the war loot and the rapings of civilians.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    What would happen if wealth was taxed progressively in place of income? Would wealth inequality shrink or grow?

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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    That would make them 25% greater, not 33%.
    Think that through again.

    Trust me.

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