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View Poll Results: Who's your GOP pick for 2012?

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  • Bachmann

    0 0%
  • Cain

    1 3.33%
  • Gingrich

    0 0%
  • Huntsman

    4 13.33%
  • Paul

    23 76.67%
  • Perry

    0 0%
  • Romney

    2 6.67%
  • Santorum

    0 0%
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  1. #61
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    Most top interrogators agree, torture doesn't work. Doesn't stop people from thinking it does.
    http://georgewashington2.blogspot.co...y-torture.html

    Collection of information. From the post, and interesting excerpt.

    Former high-level CIA official Bob Baer said "And torture -- I just don't think it really works ... you don't get the truth. What happens when you torture people is, they figure out what you want to hear and they tell you."

  2. #62
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    That torture policy is even part of a presidential debate is a testament to the fantastic culture of America

    I am not surprised that we would have to ask ourselves whether it is right to torture people

    I am America

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    Most top interrogators agree, torture doesn't work. Doesn't stop people from thinking it does.
    http://georgewashington2.blogspot.co...y-torture.html

    Collection of information. From the post, and interesting excerpt.

    Former high-level CIA official Bob Baer said "And torture -- I just don't think it really works ... you don't get the truth. What happens when you torture people is, they figure out what you want to hear and they tell you."
    The "proof" provided in a lot of the links in that write-up is whack.

    When it comes down to it, it's all about the ticking time bomb scenario.

    Aristotle argued over 2000 years ago that torture wasn't an effective method of gathering information, cuz the subject would just tell you whatever you want to hear, to get you to stop. Most of these people say nothing more than that.

    What that argument doesn't cover, however, is: 1) that perhaps there is true information that they will tell you as well; and 2) if there's a ticking time bomb scenario, you have to be able to use torture -- your ideals are meaningless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    That torture policy is even part of a presidential debate is a testament to the fantastic culture of America

    I am not surprised that we would have to ask ourselves whether it is right to torture people

    I am America
    This posting style was kinda funny at the beginning.

    The more I see it, the more tiresome it becomes.

  4. #64

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    Zarathustra, the question is not does torture work...

    But does the government have a right to torture someone?

    Factually speaking, no.

  5. #65
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    No, that's not the question.

    Nor is it the factual answer to your own question.

  6. #66

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    I cite the rights inalienable in Natural Law enumerated by the Constitution of the United States of America.

    What higher power can you cite on your claim?

    Trick question, there is none.

  7. #67
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    I'm sure John Yoo knows a little more about this issue than you do, and he disagrees.

    / winning

  8. #68
    Senior Member Critical Hit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    What if it waterboarding someone will save a million lives?
    Weve yet to see a situation like that. Also, lets apply some game theory to your "ticking time bomb" scenario.

    The suspect wants to cause X event to happen. If X event happens he wins. The interrogator wants to stop X from happening. X has a strict time limit on it.

    All the suspect has to do to win the game is take a knee by giving false info to keep the interrogator busy while the clock winds down. The interrogator has to waste time investigating the claims of the suspect, depending on how far off X is it could be very easy for the suspect to game the interrogator this way.

    If the event is so far off that the suspect is given the opportunity to lie multiple times then we can guess that it is not such a pressing issue that other routes of investigation cannot be taken.


    Consider this, how do you tell when a suspect is lying to hide the truth that he knows or when he is just telling you what you want to hear to make it stop.

    Scenario 1: Suspect does have information but is playing dumb/feeding disinfo.
    Scenario 2: Suspect is completely innocent and has no idea what the hell is going on.

    "No please, I dont know what you are talking about! Just let me go!" (torture) "Ok, ok, Ill talk. The bomb is..." (investigation shows that there is no bomb where specified)

    ^Which scenario did I just describe?

    Its a bit like the old Freudian mindgame, "You hate your father." "But I love my father." "You see! Youre repressing your hatred for your father."

    "Im innocent!"
    "Thats exactly what a terrorist would say!"
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  9. #69
    Senior Member Critical Hit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I'm sure John Yoo knows a little more about this issue than you do, and he disagrees.

    / winning
    Well Im sure Jack Goldsmith knows way more than you or John Yoo about this issue, and he disagrees.

    </ >
    +10% Crit Chance

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Critical Hit View Post
    Well Im sure Jack Goldsmith knows way more than you or John Yoo about this issue, and he disagrees.
    No, not really.

    There's no reason why Jack Goldsmith would better understand this issue than John Yoo.

    And, considering they graduated from the same law school, but John Yoo now teaches at the #1 public university in the world, and my alma mater, I'd take him over that Harvard douche any day.

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