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View Poll Results: Who's your GOP pick for 2012?

Voters
30. You may not vote on this poll
  • Bachmann

    0 0%
  • Cain

    1 3.33%
  • Gingrich

    0 0%
  • Huntsman

    4 13.33%
  • Paul

    23 76.67%
  • Perry

    0 0%
  • Romney

    2 6.67%
  • Santorum

    0 0%
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Results 281 to 287 of 287

  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    These are the hardest questions I have ever been asked.
    I am confused.

    Were you being sarcastic here?

    I ask because I found your answers to my questions to be greatly inadequate.

    I'm not sure if you're not really qualified to answer my questions or what -- I am confused.

    For the most part, I was trying to understand how costs could possibly be decreased so dramatically.

    Your responses seemed to show no appreciation for why it would be difficult to achieve such outcomes.

    Your responses seemed to focus solely on the consumer's cost, not on the effects on the system as a whole.

    Either I'm missing something, or you seem like you don't really know what you're talking about.

    Do you or do you not know what you're talking about when it comes to healthcare?

    I don't really know enough about it, and I'm trying to get clarification.

    But if this is just the blind leading the blind, then I'll stop asking.

    I had been hoping that you knew what you were talking about.

  2. #282
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I have similar questions, Zarathustra. Say what you want about insurance company's ethics, but they're not particularly wasteful. And their profit margin is held in check by competition. A state like Vermont issuing its own insurance, alone, is not enough to account for the drastically reduced premiums. Outside of a massive reorganization of the health care system (like a database to coordinate medicare and medicaid patients), I don't see how you could lower premiums that much unless you had subsidies and price controls.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #283
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I am confused.

    Were you being sarcastic here?

    I ask because I found your answers to my questions to be greatly inadequate.

    I'm not sure if you're not really qualified to answer my questions or what -- I am confused.

    For the most part, I was trying to understand how costs could possibly be decreased so dramatically.

    Your responses seemed to show no appreciation for why it would be difficult to achieve such outcomes.

    Your responses seemed to focus solely on the consumer's cost, not on the effects on the system as a whole.

    Either I'm missing something, or you seem like you don't really know what you're talking about.

    Do you or do you not know what you're talking about when it comes to healthcare?

    I don't really know enough about it, and I'm trying to get clarification.

    But if this is just the blind leading the blind, then I'll stop asking.

    I had been hoping you knew what you were talking about.
    I am sarcastic

    Which answers are inadequate?

    Do you have any further questions? I am happy to clarify any information that appears inadequate.

    As it stands, many individuals will pay hundreds-to-thousands of dollars per month for health care coverage. There is a market for health care coverage, because most people do not like being sick. There is now a new mechanism by which individuals can receive health care, and it is significantly less costly.

    What do you honestly think will happen in the United States if every single American is covered by a national health care system? Will doctors suddenly no longer be paid? Do you truly believe this?

    Do you honestly believe that the quality of care will decrease? What evidence can you submit that might corroborate this assertion? What trends are apparent in states and nations which implement nationwide health care? What is your own view of Green Mountain Care?

    I work in a hospital. I would not consider myself blind. I would say that I am familiar with health care options and have a good deal of knowledge concerning various health care models.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    I am sarcastic
    Ok, that's what I thought.

    I was just confused because the answer you provided right after had essentially nothing to do with what I asked.

    I went back and read what I wrote, and what it was in response to, and there may have been a communication breakdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Which answers are inadequate?
    Most of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Do you have any further questions? I am happy to clarify any information that appears inadequate.
    Yeah, I'm gunna have to go back through your response and clarify what I was asking, why, and why your response was inadequate.

    This is going to take a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    As it stands, many individuals will pay hundreds-to-thousands of dollars per month for health care coverage. There is a market for health care coverage, because most people do not like being sick. There is now a new mechanism by which individuals can receive health care, and it is significantly less costly.
    Ok, but I still get from this that you don't quite understand how the entire system works...

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    What do you honestly think will happen in the United States if every single American is covered by a national health care system? Will doctors suddenly no longer be paid? Do you truly believe this?
    No.

    This is not what I believe.

    But I don't believe that it would necessarily make the system that much more cost-effective.

    And what I'm asking is: if it did, then where are these cost savings coming from?

    Cuz one person's cost is another person's income, so where is the 95% (as you've said about Green Mountain) reduction coming from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Do you honestly believe that the quality of care will decrease?
    I don't know.

    But I am honestly concerned.

    I have talked with my many Swedish relatives about their highly socialized healthcare system, and they are not happy with it.

    I have also heard plenty of complaints about the English and Canadian healthcare systems that do not seem completely unwarranted.

    I have also heard (on NPR) about the methods by which the Japanese try to control their healthcare costs (price controls), and the ramifications of doing so (perpetually bankrupt hospitals [and thus continual taxpayer bailouts of "zombie" hospitals], doctors making 1/4 of what they would make in the US, overuse of the healthcare system by consumers [since it's so underpriced, relative to what the free market would charge], et al).

    I could be wrong, but I seem to be more concerned about the integrity/viability/sustainability of the system than do you.

    And I am suspicious as to whether I am because you don't really understand the system (i.e., its economics) that well.

    I've got plenty of friends who are doctors, and, frankly, they don't understand the system's economics too well.

    I'm just trying to gauge why there seems to be a disconnect between your thinking and mine.

    My fear is that you're really just a partisan hack; which is not what I would prefer.

    I would prefer that you know what you're talking about, so I could learn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    What evidence can you submit that might corroborate this assertion?
    Fyi, I'm not trying to argue here; I'm trying to figure out my position.

    I might often engage in dialectical battle, but that is not my approach here.

    Unlike most times, I do not have a strong grasp of this material; I'm just trying to learn.

    That being said...

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    What trends are apparent in states and nations which implement nationwide health care?
    I've heard lots of anecdotal evidence of people having to wait for extremely long times to see a specialist in socialized systems.

    I've also heard lots of anecdotal evidence that quality of care is often worse in many socialized systems.

    I also think there are theoretical/conceptual reasons why this very well could be the case.

    And I think the same can hold true when it comes to medical innovation.

    I've also heard anecdotal evidence (from an Australian, and from a Canadian) that they liked their systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    What is your own view of Green Mountain Care?
    Frankly, I don't think I'd ever heard of it until you mentioned it.

    I might have heard a bit about Vermont having some new system.

    I really hadn't looked into it much at all, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    I work in a hospital. I would not consider myself blind.
    Ok, that's good to know.

    If you don't mind my asking: what do you do?

    Doctor? Nurse? Administrator? Other?

    I ask because most of my doctor friends don't really seem to understand the economics of healthcare.

    Like, they see their bits and pieces, and have their complaints, but they don't seem to understand the system as a whole.

    I often feel like doctors tend not to have a good grasp of economics, and economists tend not to have a good grasp of the healthcare industry.

    I would really like to talk to somebody who's not a partisan hack, and who has a strong understanding of both.

    I am not a partisan hack, and I have a good grasp of economics, but I don't understand the industry well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    I would say that I am familiar with health care options and have a good deal of knowledge concerning various health care models.
    Ok, hopefully this will prove to be the case.

  5. #285
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Im a Ron Paul supporter but this is admittedly clever satire.

    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  6. #286
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Any thoughts on tonight's debate?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  7. #287
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    GOP New Hampshire primary debate tonight @9pm ET/6pm PT on ABC.

    Participants: Santorum, Romney, Paul, Perry, Gingrich, Huntsman
    Location: Saint Anselm College in Manchester, New Hampshire

    Live Stream: ABC News, WMUR or Yahoo! News

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