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View Poll Results: Who's your GOP pick for 2012?

Voters
30. You may not vote on this poll
  • Bachmann

    0 0%
  • Cain

    1 3.33%
  • Gingrich

    0 0%
  • Huntsman

    4 13.33%
  • Paul

    23 76.67%
  • Perry

    0 0%
  • Romney

    2 6.67%
  • Santorum

    0 0%
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  1. #201
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post

    The level to which taxes would have to increase would cripple the rest of the economy.

    That's the part you don't get.
    How?

    What evidence leads you to believe that increasing tax revenue would cripple the rest of the economy?

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    Zarathustra, how do you propose America ensures that a citizen never goes without food, roof and healthcare?
    I don't.

    The costs of achieving such a utopia would be too high.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmileyMan View Post
    Or are you entirely dismissive of the thought of ensuring a minimum amount of welfare - a safety net - for each citizen?
    No, I am not entirely dismissive of a safety net.

    In fact, America already has a significant safety net, and I support maintaining it.

    However, our entitlement systems, particularly Medicare, but also public pensions (not SS), are completely unsustainable.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    How?

    What evidence leads you to believe that increasing tax revenue would cripple the rest of the economy?
    Because the money that would otherwise have been spent, but is now going to taxes, will no longer be going to the same businesses that it would have gone to, and, in an economy already suffering from weak demand, and in which many businesses are already on the brink of bankruptcy, this will increase that lack of demand, and thus cause more of those companies to go into bankruptcy, and thus further increase unemployment, and thus exacerbate already weak demand (thus triggering the vicious cycle).

    Furthermore, the money that would otherwise have been saved, but is now going to taxes, will no longer be going to funding the new start-up businesses that have been the sole source of net employment growth over the last 15 years. With the reduction of capital going to such ventures, which will inevitably result from said higher levels of taxation, the number of said funded ventures will decline, and thus net employment growth will be lower than otherwise, which will keep demand lower than otherwise (thus feeding into the vicious cycle).

    *off to yoga*

  4. #204
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Because the money that would otherwise have been spent, but is now being taxed, will no longer be going to the same businesses that it would have gone to, and, in an economy already suffering from weak demand, and in which many businesses are already on the brink of bankruptcy, this will increase that lack of demand, and thus cause more of those companies to go into bankruptcy, and thus further increase unemployment, and thus exacerbate already weak demand.

    Furthermore, the money that would otherwise have been saved, but is now being taxed, will no longer be going to the funding the start-up businesses that have been the sole source of employment growth over the last 15 years. With the reduction in capital going to such ventures, which will inevitable result from said higher levels of taxation, the number of said funded ventures will decline, and thus lower employment growth, which is desperately needed at this juncture.
    Can you give an example of when increasing tax revenue during an economic recession resulted in a crippling of the US economy?

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Because the attack was against Obama and he didn't think he would get called on it.
    Then, Ronald boy broke protocol, which goes along with my next thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    2. Because it fits into the democrat vs republican narrative that both parties want the American people to buy into. They both speak of cuts in baseline terms because it allows them to complain about the size of their party's slice of the pie getting thinner at the cost of the other party's slice. All the while the whole pie is really getting rapidly bigger. That's the game. Ron Paul doesn't play games.
    If Ron Paul was smart he would learn how to play the political game to win. He's not doing himself or anyone else any favors by being so extremely idealistic that he doesn't get elected. He's got some great ideas, but I think he lacks strategy and balance. Surely there are unwritten rules of engagement in these political debates and one of the rules might be to avoid making enemies in your own party as you play. Not sure. :p

  6. #206
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Surely there are unwritten rules of engagement in these political debates and one of the rules might be to avoid making enemies in your own party as you play.
    The unwritten rules are wrong

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    The unwritten rules are wrong
    I'm wrong? :s

    *off to cook a turkey*

  8. #208
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    I'm wrong? :s

    *off to cook a turkey*
    No

    The notion that you cannot split with your political party is wrong

    Some might disagree

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Can you give an example of when increasing tax revenue during an economic recession resulted in a crippling of the US economy?
    Yes.

    The Great Depression.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Then, Ronald boy broke protocol, which goes along with my next thought...


    If Ron Paul was smart he would learn how to play the political game to win. He's not doing himself or anyone else any favors by being so extremely idealistic that he doesn't get elected. He's got some great ideas, but I think he lacks strategy and balance. Surely there are unwritten rules of engagement in these political debates and one of the rules might be to avoid making enemies in your own party as you play. Not sure. :p
    Ron Paul has these things called "values."

    Deceiving the public about government spending so you can score a political point would violate those values.

    Ron doesn't need to violate his values to win. He's already won 12 elections without violating them.

    The idea that this is part of some sort of unspoken protocol seems a bit bizarre to me. I'll play along though. I think we should make new unspoken rules for these debates. Rule #1: no repeating word for word what your handlers tell you to say.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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