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  1. #11
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    interesting thread, I can definitely see both sides of the coin on this one
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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    If a good chunk of them are sitting around in tents, smoking pot, and refusing to vacate, and/or if they are looting and/or violent, then yes, especially. And yes, I think all protests are pretty silly..... including ones I agree with.
    I wouldnt say protest is silly, I wouldnt just say that about places where its liable to get you killed like China or Syria either or places where its liable to escalate to a challenge of the legitimacy of the ruling parties like the velvet or orange revolutions or in Lybia.

    Looting and violence is just being an asshole and every protest movement seems to attract people who're just shiftless too, its a shame if those things allowed to be considered representative because I'm sure they are not what the protest is about.

  3. #13
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Societies which can handle a lot of protest are oftne those which dont change very much, there's a reason for that, its the same as the couple who appear to fight a lot but consequently are pretty stable, versus the couple which doesnt fight, couldnt bare to fight and it would be the end of it all if they did but which privately is pretty troubled and cant communicate.

    So it is really a case of "why dont you guys vent there and we'll carry on business as usual in the mean time, when you're feeling better we're sure you'll see it our way".
    I feel like the same thing could be said about the voting process.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post

    - Protests can be one way in which the very things being protested manage conflict, they can be used as a means to let of steam and effectively neutralise opposition by encouraging them to spend their energy, efforts and resources in that way. This is similar to the "temper tantrum" conceptualisation of protest, which I do think is a belittling and delegitimising way of looking at protest per se, suggesting a lack of maturity or copeing skills on the part of protestors, that its simply about frustration.
    Not really. I know no one who doesn't have a temper tantrum every once in a while. The looting and criminal behaviors, let's face it, that stuff should be belittled.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    - Societies which can handle a lot of protest are oftne those which dont change very much, there's a reason for that, its the same as the couple who appear to fight a lot but consequently are pretty stable, versus the couple which doesnt fight, couldnt bare to fight and it would be the end of it all if they did but which privately is pretty troubled and cant communicate.
    I do see the positive in protest, in that, it's an outlet for many people. That's why I think people should be free to involve themselves in peaceful protest, regardless of whether I think it's silly or not, or whether I see reason for it or not. I simply prefer to take other measures that I think have better results. Many people think many protestors are simply stupid and insane, and that's the truth. Taking this into account, it leads me to want to take other measures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post

    Looting and violence is just being an asshole and every protest movement seems to attract people who're just shiftless too, its a shame if those things allowed to be considered representative because I'm sure they are not what the protest is about.
    Honestly, I don't think you've seen an Oakland protest. A BIG chunk of them are those people. People who are there because they enjoy being involved in the violence and to take advantage. Not because they really care about the message or the movement. They just want to rebel against authority.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    I honestly find that unfair to the police of Oakland. One guy steps out of line and suddenly it is all of them. Yet, most of the crowd was hurling plates at them and throwing dumpsters off of buildings, breaking windows, etc. It was mass chaos in the streets.

    How do you suggest we stop them from ruining the city of Oakland and it's businesses and homes? Those people had turned violent and refused to vacate when told to. That police officer will get his, just like they all do when they step out of line. They serve jail terms for that shit.

    If you are going to be involved in a massive, group violence act such as refusing to vacate and turning violent against police, don't be shocked when you end up injured. All police officers are not saints, especially in Oakland, and many noobs also simply make mistakes. There is risk involved.

    After they vacated, the area was cleaned and restored, and they have now been allowed to return to the area, and to protesting. They needed to clear the area because it had become a safety hazard. Shame on those "evil masters", for protecting the citizens of Oakland.
    Listen to what you are saying. You say the police officer will get his. I agree that anyone who is being destructive should be arrested, whether protester or cop. You claim it is unfair to paint the entire police force in an unfavorable light, yet you are so quick to dismiss the entire movement (composed of so many thousands of people, in so many cities) as a temper tantrum because a tiny fraction of them are destructive.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    Honestly, I don't think you've seen an Oakland protest. A BIG chunk of them are those people. People who are there because they enjoy being involved in the violence and to take advantage. Not because they really care about the message or the movement. They just want to rebel against authority.


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  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Listen to what you are saying. You say the police officer will get his. I agree that anyone who is being destructive should be arrested, whether protester or cop. You claim it is unfair to paint the entire police force in an unfavorable light, yet you are so quick to dismiss the entire movement (composed of so many thousands of people, in so many cities) as a temper tantrum because a tiny fraction of them are destructive.
    That's a good point.

  8. #18
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Listen to what you are saying. You say the police officer will get his. I agree that anyone who is being destructive should be arrested, whether protester or cop. You claim it is unfair to paint the entire police force in an unfavorable light, yet you are so quick to dismiss the entire movement (composed of so many thousands of people, in so many cities) as a temper tantrum because a tiny fraction of them are destructive.
    No, not necessarily. I don't dismiss them because "a tiny fraction of them are destructive". I do dismiss the Oakland situation, because I've checked-up on it almost everyday, through going by there and seeing what is going on, and reading in the paper and on the net. I live there, so it's not hard for me to see and judge. A lot more of them are destructive in Oakland than you might think. It's hundreds-to-thousands of people, usually.

    I think most protests are temper-tantrums, not just the OWS ones. I don't dismiss the movement, anyway, but I do have critical views of it.
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  9. #19
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    No, not necessarily. I don't dismiss them because "a tiny fraction of them are destructive". I do dismiss the Oakland situation, because I've checked-up on it almost everyday, through going by there and seeing what is going on, and reading in the paper and on the net. I live there, so it's not hard for me to see and judge. A lot more of them are destructive in Oakland than you might think. It's hundreds-to-thousands of people, usually.

    I think most protests are temper-tantrums, not just the OWS ones. I don't dismiss the movement, anyway, but I do have critical views of it.
    personally, I dismiss the direction of the movement more than the movement itself
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonCoryon View Post
    There are plenty of ways to raise awareness of an issue. Writing is a great way to convey ideas. Writing a column for a newspaper or writing a blog post can help spread your ideas. Making a YouTube video. Talking about the issues with friends, family, and total strangers. Talking on FB or here and other online forums. Getting messages back and forth and having them spread like wildfire is very easy in contemporary times.

    There are plenty of legal ways to enact change. You yourself can run for office. You can get involved in party politics. Don't ignore the parties, because they control the process. You have to enact change from within. Vote in primaries and elections. Address your elected officials at town hall meetings, council meetings, etc. Go to speeches and party events, not to protest but to get your message to the office holder / candidate.

    Yelling and screaming in the street is a complete break down of the process. It may have been necessary due to technology limitations in times past, but it is no longer.
    What a refreshing change to read something constructive.
    Thank you for posting it, and welcome to the forum.

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