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  1. #31
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    Yes, I know the findings of the trial, I linked to a report on the outcome. It was the scariest part of the film for me when I watched it earlier this summer, because I had no prior knowledge about that case. I think that is probably why the filmmaker used it as her final segment. Almost like a stirring closing argument. It is a pro trial lawyer film, and I accept it as such. Jones lost her case and its interesting to see a counterpoint to what she stated in the film, thanks for sharing that. I remain wary of the use of binding arbitration, which was the whole point of the Jones segment, for reasons that don't relate to the film or her case.
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  2. #32
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    I agree that binding arbitration shouldn't be allowed to stand when there are allegations of criminal activity. But in this situation, she lied or omitted relevant facts in statements and before a court of law. This woman wasn't a very honest one, one who struggled with mental illness whereby this was her third (?) rape allegation and second one with alcohol involved. That she omitted her prior requirement for prescription drugs to treat her disorders, while purportedly providing her medical history from kindergarten onwards, didn't reflect well on her. As well, evidence didn't support her allegations of gang rape or even her allegations of the necessity for reconstructive surgeries, post alleged rape. There was also no evidence of the roofie or date rape drug she alluded to. Literally...nothing jived beyond evidence that she had some rough sex and apparently, only with one man, the one that witnesses saw her flirt with all night long and then leave with him.

    Quite frankly, it sounds like she was hammered and had consensual sex with someone who enjoyed rough sex. It's possible she did pass out prior to having sex with him but no one knows for sure. For sure she flirted with him and then consensually left with him.

  3. #33
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    I read about the full facts of this case years ago, so I know what a myth it's become to many.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    IMO, this is no different than suing a needle company for poking out an eye. Where was the warning label for the sharpness of the needle and why are needles made so sharp? They should be blunted so people can't poke their eyes out. :facepalm:
    That doesn't make sense. The needles are that sharp for a very specific purpose. The McD coffee isn't that hot for a specific purpose, just a vague preference of their customers. Indeed the coffee is unsafe to consume at that temperature. Needles are intended to be used at their peak sharpness.

    I can see why the jury came to their decision. I think that not only was McD negligent, but that they come close to gross negligence as well. Most, if not nearly all, customers of McD do not expect their coffee to be as dangerous and able to cause injuries that severe. Nasty unpleasant burn, yes. Skin grafts, no.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    I'm also wondering how long these burns were left untended to get to this severity level. Did they drive right to the hospital or were these burns left to fester?
    I'm wondering that too. I've had many similar things happen to myself and got light first degree burns at the most. I've seen someone spill fryer oil on themselves, which was about 400 Fahrenheit, and have a lot less severe burns than that.

    Maybe an unfortunate skin, clothing and disability combination.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    I'm wondering that too. I've had many similar things happen to myself and got light first degree burns at the most. I've seen someone spill fryer oil on themselves, which was about 400 Fahrenheit, and have a lot less severe burns than that.

    Maybe an unfortunate skin, clothing and disability combination.
    90 year-old skin isn't even real skin. In fact, the differences between old people skin and young people skin are phenomenal and numerous. Now that I am frequently assessing people in the hospital, I am frequently surprised by what old people skin can and (more importantly) cannot do.

    So while it may be up for speculation, I can certainly see why a person would presume that pouring boiling water onto an old lady could lead to health complications.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    So while it may be up for speculation, I can certainly see why a person would presume that pouring boiling water onto an old lady could lead to health complications.
    It wasn't boiling though, and I took it as a given that a 79 year old will be more susceptible to burns directly, and less able to react in order to reduce contact time with the skin. I'm sceptical of how that led to third degree burns, though, even if the cotton she was wearing was especially good at keeping both the liquid and its heat firmly against the skin.

    It would be interesting to see what the evidence was regarding how fast those temperatures in coffee cause differing degrees of burns. Especially how closely they relate to scenarios that are practical to plan for.

    Perhaps something strange happened, or perhaps those 700 or so cases prior are filled with third degree burns.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I can see why the jury came to their decision. I think that not only was McD negligent, but that they come close to gross negligence as well. Most, if not nearly all, customers of McD do not expect their coffee to be as dangerous and able to cause injuries that severe. Nasty unpleasant burn, yes. Skin grafts, no.
    People do not expect to die from overexertion during athletic competitions neither. Since statistics show that deaths do occur, is it negligent to even hold these competitions?

  8. #38
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    It wasn't boiling though, and I took it as a given that a 79 year old will be more susceptible to burns directly, and less able to react in order to reduce contact time with the skin. I'm sceptical of how that led to third degree burns, though, even if the cotton she was wearing was especially good at keeping both the liquid and its heat firmly against the skin.

    It would be interesting to see what the evidence was regarding how fast those temperatures in coffee cause differing degrees of burns. Especially how closely they relate to scenarios that are practical to plan for.

    Perhaps something strange happened, or perhaps those 700 or so cases prior are filled with third degree burns.
    http://www.accuratebuilding.com/serv...ing_graph.html

    Water does not have to be boiling to produce third degree burns

    Boiling water will cause a third degree burn to form rapidly (<1 second of exposure), while sub-boiling temperatures will produce similar burns over a period of time (say 3-5 seconds, for example)

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    http://www.accuratebuilding.com/serv...ing_graph.html

    Water does not have to be boiling to produce third degree burns

    Boiling water will cause a third degree burn to form rapidly (<1 second of exposure), while sub-boiling temperatures will produce similar burns over a period of time (say 3-5 seconds, for example)
    I just poured boiling water on my hand, it didn't do anything except hurt. I just poured some on my jeans, it's created a very light first degree burn which, judging by previous burns I've sustained, will vanish over night (and it made contact for a lot longer than a second). Whatever that graph represents, I'd like to see what evidence and methodology they used to form it, including what "possible thermal injuries" means. I'm seeing results that temperatures around that of the coffee can "badly" burn young children if a large surface area is exposed to a large amount of water, but still rarely a third degree burn, and I haven't found their methodology either. It also looks suspiciously like it all comes from one source.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    I just poured boiling water on my hand, it didn't do anything except hurt. I just poured some on my jeans, it's created a very light first degree burn which, judging by previous burns I've sustained, will vanish over night (and it made contact for a lot longer than a second). Whatever that graph represents, I'd like to see what evidence and methodology they used to form it, including what "possible thermal injuries" means. I'm seeing results that temperatures around that of the coffee can "badly" burn young children if a large surface area is exposed to a large amount of water, but still rarely a third degree burn, and I haven't found their methodology either. It also looks suspiciously like it all comes from one source.
    I think we are getting off topic here. What do you believe caused the lady's third degree burns?

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