User Tag List

First 71516171819 Last

Results 161 to 170 of 268

  1. #161
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I could see you saying "lack of oversight"...
    Yes, that was part of it, particularly by the Fed over the mortgage industry, and primarily because Alan Greenspan had a pie-in-the-sky, deregulation-based philosophy that (falsely) assumed free markets create a sort of Leibnizean best-possible-state-of-the-world.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    ...but there is a shit-ton of regulation in the banking industry...
    Yes, but the amount of regulation is not the same the quality of regulation.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    ...that industry is regulated out the wazoo compared to, say, software.
    Frankly, having worked in the financial industry my whole career, I can say that that's probably a good and necessary thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Even the Glass-Steagal repeal wouldn't have been dangerous IF there were other legislative adjustments made at the same time.
    Yes, well, assuming that you are correct (and I'm not saying you're not), that's a pretty big if.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Instead, we got a greenlight for an industry with insanely high barriers of entry...
    Barriers to entry in the financial industry are not the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    ...AND an implicit (later, explicit) guarantee of bailout protection.
    This, on the other hand, is...

    And that's coming from someone who recognizes that the bailouts were the proper course of action.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That isn't a dearth of regulation.
    That's fine, but it doesn't mean that lack of proper regulation didn't contribute to the crisis, nor that deregulation didn't contribute to it.

    In particular, in addition to what was mentioned above, lack of proper regulation over derivatives was a major contributor to the crisis.

  2. #162
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yes, that was part of it, particularly by the Fed over the mortgage industry, and primarily because Alan Greenspan had a pie-in-the-sky, deregulation-based philosophy that (falsely) assumed free markets create a sort of Leibnizean best-possible-state-of-the-world.
    I don't really believe that Greenspan acted according to his philosophy. What kind of Objectivist would be an activist federal banker like that?


    Yes, but the amount of regulation is not the same the quality of regulation.
    A fair point, but I argued the previous post suggesting that "unregulated banking" caused the recession. Banking hasn't been "unregulated," for a century, if not longer.


    Frankly, having worked in the financial industry my whole career, I can say that that's probably a good and necessary thing.
    Again, a fair thing to assert.


    Yes, well, assuming that you are correct (and I'm not saying you're not), that's a pretty big if.
    I think it's fairly clear, but what else needed to be done is certainly up for discussion.


    Barriers to entry in the financial industry are not the problem.
    The regulation in that industry is not conducive to the big players being forced to compete against newer players with better practices.


    This, on the other hand, is...
    I think most people with brains recognize that.


    And that's coming from someone who recognizes that the bailouts were the proper course of action.
    Not particularly libertarian opinion from my perspective.



    That's fine, but it doesn't mean that lack of proper regulation didn't contribute to the crisis, nor that deregulation didn't contribute to it.

    Also, aside from what was mentioned above, lack of proper regulation over derivatives was a major contributor to the crisis.
    But no one can argue that banking was "unregulated" in this instance.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #163
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Nor does homosexuals not being able to marry deny them equal protection. Nowhere does prop 8 say that homosexuals can't marry. It says that marriage, as a term, is defined as being between a man and a woman. There is no gender discrimination at all in prop 8. Any man, or any woman, whether homosexual, or heterosexual, or somewhere in between, can marry, as defined by prop 8.

    They simply cannot marry someone of the same sex, because that is not what marriage is.
    Wow. I wonder if I can define voting as something a white man does.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  4. #164
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Wow. I wonder if I can define voting as something a white man does.
    Well, you could.

    But it would be dumb.

    It's too broad to be useful.

  5. #165
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I don't really believe that Greenspan acted according to his philosophy.
    He certainly did when it came to the Fed's regulation over the mortgage industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    What kind of Objectivist would be an activist federal banker like that?
    One like Alan Greenspan, apparently.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    A fair point, but I argued the previous post suggesting that "unregulated banking" caused the recession. Banking hasn't been "unregulated," for a century, if not longer.
    Ok, that's fine, but my response to your post was in reference to the specific part where you (wrongly) said, "it was NOT deregulation or lack of regulation that caused [the recession], at all."

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Again, a fair thing to assert.
    I do agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I think it's fairly clear, but what else needed to be done is certainly up for discussion.
    Yeah, I guess.

    This is/was just too nebulous/ambiguous for me to wholesale get behind.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    The regulation in that industry is not conducive to the big players being forced to compete against newer players with better practices.
    Once again, competition in the banking sector was not the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I think most people with brains recognize that.
    That depends on what you mean by "with brains"...

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Not particularly libertarian opinion from my perspective.
    Did you see the part where I said "begrudgingly"?

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    But no one can argue that banking was "unregulated" in this instance.
    I never said that it wasn't.

    I was just correcting your false assertion that "it was NOT deregulation or lack of regulation that caused [the recession], at all."

  6. #166
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Well, you could.

    But it would be dumb.

    It's too broad to be useful.
    Oh, I'd keep all the other aspects of the definition of voting, just add that it specifically involved a white man doing all the things that voting entails.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  7. #167
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Oh, I'd keep all the other aspects of the definition of voting, just add that it specifically involved a white man doing all the things that voting entails.
    Apparently you don't get it.

  8. #168
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    MBTI
    intp
    Posts
    214

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post

    There was no food or medicine or protection before the government was involved? Jesus, this line of thinking is ridiculous. And the man is a medical doctor, remember? There is a lower percentage of people covered by health insurance since the implementation of Medicare and Medicaid, BTW.

    A regulated food industry gives us tainted baby formula still. Banking was and is one of the MOST regulated industries in the country, and we still got the recession (it was NOT deregulation or lack of regulation that caused it, at all). And what is "unregulated policing" exactly?
    You're putting words in my mouth. I most certainly did not say that food, medicine, and protection were non-existent before regulations, and I feel no need to knock that straw man down by clarifying. I also did not mention Medicare or Medicaid, and nor do I see any but the most tenuous link between the unfortunate state of health coverage in the US and my initial paragraph.

    While it is true that there are cases of tainted foods in regulated markets, they are fewer, less blatant, and more quickly fixed (and thus less severe) than in unregulated markets.

    The current recession was caused by a lack of regulation, specifically in the mortgage, credit debt swaps/asset back securities, and credit rating markets. Banks were able to approve sub-prime mortgages because they intended to sell the debt, and they were able to sell the debt because they credit ratings agencies depended on those they were rating for their paychecks and as a result it was virtually impossible to determine the quality (or lack thereof) of said debt. That's not to say the industry as a whole was unregulated (that is obviously untrue), but in areas that matter there were not appropriate safeguards in place.

    Unregulated policing is policing that occurs without regulations in place to ensure reasonable levels of oversight, minimum standards of training and behaviour, or recourse for those with grievances.

    Regulation is not the answer to all of life's problems (and is the cause of many), but it is necessary in areas where large disparities in power and information exist.

  9. #169
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dala View Post
    You're putting words in my mouth. I most certainly did not say that food, medicine, and protection were non-existent before regulations, and I feel no need to knock that straw man down by clarifying. I also did not mention Medicare or Medicaid, and nor do I see any but the most tenuous link between the unfortunate state of health coverage in the US and my initial paragraph.
    Explain further.


    While it is true that there are cases of tainted foods in regulated markets, they are fewer, less blatant, and more quickly fixed (and thus less severe) than in unregulated markets.
    Provide evidence.


    The current recession was caused by a lack of regulation, specifically in the mortgage, credit debt swaps/asset back securities, and credit rating markets. Banks were able to approve sub-prime mortgages because they intended to sell the debt, and they were able to sell the debt because they credit ratings agencies depended on those they were rating for their paychecks and as a result it was virtually impossible to determine the quality (or lack thereof) of said debt. That's not to say the industry as a whole was unregulated (that is obviously untrue), but in areas that matter there were not appropriate safeguards in place.
    So was it banking that was not regulated enough, or credit agencies? I think your characterization here is quite narrow. No mention of Fannie and Freddie? Anti-redlining? Monetary policy? Clinton- and Bush-era tax/fiscal policy?


    Unregulated policing is policing that occurs without regulations in place to ensure reasonable levels of oversight, minimum standards of training and behaviour, or recourse for those with grievances.
    In what context would there be "unregulated policing" in Ron Paul's (or any other libertarian's) world? I don't see the connection. In fact, LEO power at pretty much every level of government would be more restricted in such a world, not less. I don't understand the inclusion.


    Regulation is not the answer to all of life's problems (and is the cause of many), but it is necessary in areas where large disparities in power and information exist.
    I am not saying that there aren't good regulations. I am saying that most regulations are ineffectual at best and counterproductive to their stated ends quite often.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #170
    Senior Member Critical Hit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    338

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Apparently you don't get it.
    Get what? Is there anything to "get" from stupid semantic games?
    +10% Crit Chance

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] NF, How Are You NOT Like Your Type Description?
    By SquirrelTao in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 115
    Last Post: 08-27-2017, 05:28 PM
  2. [SJ] SJ, How Are You NOT Like Your Type Description?
    By SquirrelTao in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 06-04-2017, 06:25 PM
  3. [SP] SP, How Are You NOT Like Your Type Description?
    By SquirrelTao in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 103
    Last Post: 05-15-2017, 03:39 AM
  4. Anyone who thinks Ron Paul Shouldn't be President is completly stupid or ignorant...
    By Munchies in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 152
    Last Post: 01-13-2012, 01:47 PM
  5. [NT] NT, How Are You NOT Like Your Type Description?
    By SquirrelTao in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: 09-27-2008, 05:05 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO