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Thread: Tariffs

  1. #1
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Default Tariffs

    Would they help or hurt our economy?

    According to wikipedia, the average tariff was 1.3% in 2010. Historically, tariffs were almost always above 10%, reaching as high as 44.6%, until the post-WWII era.

    My thoughts on this: We should raise tariffs, significantly, and we should do it yesterday.

    Why? This would shift the balance so that manufacturers would be more likely to open factories in the US, rather than in China. I believe it could reduce or even reverse the direction of the flow of jobs out of the US. I know other countries would retaliate, but the US is a net importer. We stand to gain more by doing this than a net exporter would.

    This is something we need to do soon, before the US loses its buying power. If we lose our buying power, there would be much less incentive for manufacturers to relocate to the US because they would be shipping more of their goods to other places in the world.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Would they help or hurt our economy?

    According to wikipedia, the average tariff was 1.3% in 2010. Historically, tariffs were almost always above 10%, reaching as high as 44.6%, until the post-WWII era.

    My thoughts on this: We should raise tariffs, significantly, and we should do it yesterday.

    Why? This would shift the balance so that manufacturers would be more likely to open factories in the US, rather than in China. I believe it could reduce or even reverse the direction of the flow of jobs out of the US. I know other countries would retaliate, but the US is a net importer. We stand to gain more by doing this than a net exporter would.

    This is something we need to do soon, before the US loses its buying power. If we lose our buying power, there would be much less incentive for manufacturers to relocate to the US because they would be shipping more of their goods to other places in the world.

    Let's not start a trade war. If we really want to fix this situation, we will stop borrowing so much damn money, pass meaningful tax reform, and harmonize all tariffs (and stop the embargo against Cuba while we're at it). Tariffs should be for revenue only, not to try to right trade imbalances.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I completely agree. I don't see anyway we can restore the USA's economy that doesn't involve reversing the flow of labor and production to China. Our employment is reduced as businesses seek cheaper workers in China, or GDP growth slows down as businesses decide to produce things with Chinese workers. And the more invested businesses are in China, the less reason they care to invest here, meaning they will pitch less and less into infrastucture, education, health care, etc.
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    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Tariffs should be for revenue only, not to try to right trade imbalances.
    I don't see why not. But as it happens, we could also really use some revenue right about now!
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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Would they help or hurt our economy?

    According to wikipedia, the average tariff was 1.3% in 2010. Historically, tariffs were almost always above 10%, reaching as high as 44.6%, until the post-WWII era.

    My thoughts on this: We should raise tariffs, significantly, and we should do it yesterday.

    Why? This would shift the balance so that manufacturers would be more likely to open factories in the US, rather than in China. I believe it could reduce or even reverse the direction of the flow of jobs out of the US. I know other countries would retaliate, but the US is a net importer. We stand to gain more by doing this than a net exporter would.

    This is something we need to do soon, before the US loses its buying power. If we lose our buying power, there would be much less incentive for manufacturers to relocate to the US because they would be shipping more of their goods to other places in the world.
    What you're talking about is autarky and localism and those are anathema to globalisation and global capital flows, no matter how much the Rhineland version of capitalism (the sort which exists in Germany) makes sense it wont be adopted when its contra those two things.

    The present global elites are financial elites, banks and speculators, they benefit by the sorts of interenational transfers which are less likely and less common place where tariffs or tobin taxes exist as a break. They will never support it.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I completely agree. I don't see anyway we can restore the USA's economy that doesn't involve reversing the flow of labor and production to China. Our employment is reduced as businesses seek cheaper workers in China, or GDP growth slows down as businesses decide to produce things with Chinese workers. And the more invested businesses are in China, the less reason they care to invest here, meaning they will pitch less and less into infrastucture, education, health care, etc.
    Those things, health and public works, are the only real sources of employment in an economy where industry and commerce have gone elsewhere, although they are very things which the private sector dont do well and usually require state action, so the US will continue with jobless growth and hating on the poor if you ask me.

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    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Let's not start a trade war. If we really want to fix this situation, we will stop borrowing so much damn money, pass meaningful tax reform, and harmonize all tariffs (and stop the embargo against Cuba while we're at it). Tariffs should be for revenue only, not to try to right trade imbalances.
    A trade war is already set in place with China keeping the yuan so low. So in a way I agree with Lateralus, tariffs should be raised until China agrees to let its currency float more freely.

    Of course though it would be stupid to impose tariffs on trade with say Europe or Brazil.
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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I remember hearing that trade with China was limited by the propensity for counterfeiting and stealing of innovations through corporate esponiage.

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    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What you're talking about is autarky and localism and those are anathema to globalisation and global capital flows, no matter how much the Rhineland version of capitalism (the sort which exists in Germany) makes sense it wont be adopted when its contra those two things.

    The present global elites are financial elites, banks and speculators, they benefit by the sorts of interenational transfers which are less likely and less common place where tariffs or tobin taxes exist as a break. They will never support it.
    Lark is right.
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    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    A trade war is already set in place with China keeping the yuan so low. So in a way I agree with Lateralus, tariffs should be raised until China agrees to let its currency float more freely.

    Of course though it would be stupid to impose tariffs on trade with say Europe or Brazil.
    I'd prefer not to piss off the second-largest national economy on the planet, especially while we are in a major slump. China's growth is slowing, while their inflation is rising. They should (and probably will) allow their currency to appreciate in the near future.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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