User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 91

Thread: Male dominance

  1. #21
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    2,739

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    No I am not, in case that wasn't obvious.

    Let me clarify further:

    Take Wiki's definition: "a culture in which rape and sexual violence against women are common and in which prevalent attitudes, norms, practices, and media condone, normalize, excuse, or tolerate sexual violence against women"

    It doesn't mean that the whole society or culture does this, although that would still fit. There's an invisible "some" after that "which".

    So in the case of what I said to @Beargryllz, it would specifically be that men are not pressured enough, and women pressured too much, compared to the ideal balance of pressure. So for example, pressure on the potential victim is often a wise move ("don't go down that street at night, you might get stabbed"), but in the case of rape, the potential victims are often pressured beyond that, to the point where they are being blamed, to some degree, for the crime, and where putting that pressure on the potential perpetrators or other groups instead, would be a lot more effective.
    I consider it tasteless and non-constructive to blame the victim of a crime while excusing the criminal

  2. #22
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,675

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I'm going to address the flip side of the coin and say that women incentivize this almost as much as men do
    - they say "I don't like him, he isn't strong enough" every time they meet a nice guy who will treat them right
    - they "test" men to make sure they're really all they're cracked up to be. the results follow. men can only take so much pestering
    - when they meet a guy who's a real jerk, they usually treat him like gold
    - once they end up in an abusive relationship, they STAY in that relationship (which I may add is also incredibly selfish to any children the couple has)
    synopsis: in general, men who treat women like shit get what they want; men who treat women right get treated like trash.

    this trend, and thus the domestic violence inflicted on the woman's end, can be greatly reduced by
    - if you meet a guy who is a real jerk, has violent tendencies or doesn't treat you well DON'T DATE HIM
    - if you meet a guy who is kind, considerate, polite and treats you well, treat him with respect
    - if you do happen to end up in an abusive relationship, LEAVE

    if we are talking about a relationship between 2 adults, the woman holds the cards here, not the man. if women don't date ass holes, men who are ass holes won't find mates and society will reward men who don't have control issues. it's just like economics, supply and demand
    I would agree with that, I've even dated women like that and its been very short lived. Its as bad as meeting someone who is bossy and domineering.

    I think its the personality which Eric Fromm describes as atypical in which people have a kind of sado-masochistic character profile, they submit to a higher power, tyranise over a lower one, with the women in this example the man could be the higher power and they will tyranise over children, pets or female friends. The men involved could be tyranising over the women but submitting to someone or something else.

  3. #23
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    9,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I would agree with that, I've even dated women like that and its been very short lived. Its as bad as meeting someone who is bossy and domineering.

    I think its the personality which Eric Fromm describes as atypical in which people have a kind of sado-masochistic character profile, they submit to a higher power, tyranise over a lower one, with the women in this example the man could be the higher power and they will tyranise over children, pets or female friends. The men involved could be tyranising over the women but submitting to someone or something else.
    exactly. people seem to have trouble communicating as equals and operating without the presence of some kind of primitive hierarchy. the world as a whole needs a large dose of assertiveness and some serious lessons on healthy communication
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  4. #24
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,675

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Rape has much to do with power, and little to do with sex. It's about seeking lost powerless by acting out on someone weaker. So wherever you have people who feel they have no power, you will have more rape, conservative or permissive cultures notwithstanding.
    Your analysis isnt mistaken, the confusion of power and sex is a problem all by itself, but I do believe that the generalisation of ideas that sex is easily and readily available, uncomplicated and problem free, being had by everyone do contribute to states of mind in which obsessiveness or objectifying others or rationalising violence is easy or easier.

  5. #25
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INfj
    Enneagram
    451 sx/so
    Socionics
    ENFj Ni
    Posts
    5,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Your analysis isnt mistaken, the confusion of power and sex is a problem all by itself, but I do believe that the generalisation of ideas that sex is easily and readily available, uncomplicated and problem free, being had by everyone do contribute to states of mind in which obsessiveness or objectifying others or rationalising violence is easy or easier.
    I would actually arrive at the opposite conclusion. That in a suppressed and highly 'conservative' society, where members might feel repressed in their individuality, there would be a higher incidence of sexual violence. Again, it's not the woman causing the rape, it's the mentality of the rapist to want to rape. You seem to still be lumping together power with promiscuity, and I think that is a mistaken way of thinking. (and leads to the thinking that women 'deserve' to be raped).

    Yes, those women who are accessible will be the victims of the males seeking to act out their feelings of powerlessness. But it is not the permissiveness in and of itself that is causing them to want to.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  6. #26
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,675

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    exactly. people seem to have trouble communicating as equals and operating without the presence of some kind of primitive hierarchy. the world as a whole needs a large dose of assertiveness and some serious lessons on healthy communication
    Well Fromm suggests that the loss of primitive bonds, what he calls primary relationships, with community and nature has created the climate in which individual sovereignty is too much of trial for most people, so they avoid it in different ways, the sado-masochist character profile is just one of them and Fromm looked at it primarily in relation to Nazism or Communism but I think its much more pervasive than that.

    I've read novelisations of instances of crime or murder, like the book The Girl Next Door by Jack Ketchum, and exactly the hard hearted evil that Fromm so well described.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,675

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I would actually arrive at the opposite conclusion. That in a suppressed and highly 'conservative' society, where members might feel repressed in their individuality, there would be a higher incidence of sexual violence. Again, it's not the woman causing the rape, it's the mentality of the rapist to want to rape. You seem to still be lumping together power with promiscuity, and I think that is a mistaken way of thinking. (and leads to the thinking that women 'deserve' to be raped).

    Yes, those women who are accessible will be the victims of the males seeking to act out their feelings of powerlessness. But it is not the permissiveness in and of itself that is causing them to want to.
    Yeah, I thought you'd say that.

    Look, we can exchange cliches and you could seek to have me fit the stereotypical straight jacket you've made out for me or we could have a real discussion. Get in touch if you'd like that. I've had this discussion a dozen times with a dozen different people and I'm not interested in repeating that well trodden path, its tedious and goes no place other than people trying to confirm their established beliefs. Its nothing personal and I'm not attacking you but I think I should be honest. Thanks for reading and taking an interest.

  8. #28
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INfj
    Enneagram
    451 sx/so
    Socionics
    ENFj Ni
    Posts
    5,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, I thought you'd say that.

    Look, we can exchange cliches and you could seek to have me fit the stereotypical straight jacket you've made out for me or we could have a real discussion. Get in touch if you'd like that. I've had this discussion a dozen times with a dozen different people and I'm not interested in repeating that well trodden path, its tedious and goes no place other than people trying to confirm their established beliefs. Its nothing personal and I'm not attacking you but I think I should be honest. Thanks for reading and taking an interest.
    I was bringing something new to the discussion with my first paragraph.

    I read in your response this: "Agree with me or else you are being cliche."

    You did not only not address my points, but you accused me of stereotyping you? I did no such thing. I simply pointed out that your way of thinking in that post smacks of the typical stereotypical accusation underlying why women get raped.

    Defensive much?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  9. #29
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,675

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I was bringing something new to the discussion with my first paragraph.

    I read in your response this: "Agree with me or else you are being cliche."

    You did not only not address my points, but you accused me of stereotyping you? I did no such thing. I simply pointed out that your way of thinking in that post smacks of the typical stereotypical accusation underlying why women get raped.

    Defensive much?
    Another post I could have written myself.

    I'm not being defensive, I'm not asking you to agree with me either, I'm just being honest. I dont want to play the part you've cast for me is all. If you'd like to discuss things, grand, really up for that.

    If you'd like to use me as a sounding board for some cliches about how the hypersexualisation of society has no relationship or correlation to higher incidences of rape then, well, I've done that before and its not very interesting, not very enriching or a useful way to spend my time visiting the forum today. So, in that case no thanks.

    What's defensive about that?

  10. #30
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INfj
    Enneagram
    451 sx/so
    Socionics
    ENFj Ni
    Posts
    5,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Another post I could have written myself.

    I'm not being defensive, I'm not asking you to agree with me either, I'm just being honest. I dont want to play the part you've cast for me is all. If you'd like to discuss things, grand, really up for that.

    If you'd like to use me as a sounding board for some cliches about how the hypersexualisation of society has no relationship or correlation to higher incidences of rape then, well, I've done that before and its not very interesting, not very enriching or a useful way to spend my time visiting the forum today. So, in that case no thanks.

    What's defensive about that?
    I guess we have different definitions of 'discussing.' I thought I was until you accused me of stereotyping you. I was more pointing, as I said, to the mentality. I love to discuss things, Lark. You are the one who exited. Which is totally fine. Perhaps you have different requirements for engaging in discussions than I do. I like to discuss and argue.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


Similar Threads

  1. What would an INTJ male find physically attractive?
    By Usehername in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 102
    Last Post: 07-11-2015, 10:04 PM
  2. Rarest male type?
    By Economica in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 08-18-2007, 01:25 PM
  3. Se Verses Si Dominance
    By FFF in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 08-02-2007, 08:54 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO