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  1. #41
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    All tools have the potential to be used for evil. The solution is not to ban the tool, but to strive to keep them in the right hands. Public apathy and ignorance presents a much greater threat to freedom than anything else.

    If the tool runs contrary to due process and checks and balances then it is a toxic tool.

    The way to put a useful tool in right hands of a governing body is to ensure that its use is limited so that wrongful uses and the degree of malfeasance is [regardless whose hands this power sits within], is limited or subject to appropriate overcite.

    If the means justify the ends a post killing judicial review (i.e. a wrongful death action by the father/Civil suit against President Obama) should at least be an option if for whatever reason a prekilling review is unacceptable. One of the equitable remedies sought could be an injunction against the President absent judicial review or a specific law [suviving constituional muster] granting the President the power for this type of killing by a majority of the federal Congress.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    If the tool runs contrary to due process and checks and balances then it is a toxic tool.
    It's not toxic if it enhances the ability to achieve one's goal.

    If the means justify the ends a post killing judicial review (i.e. a wrongful death action by the father/Civil suit against President Obama) should at least be an option if for whatever reason a prekilling review is unacceptable.
    Like it or not, secrets are necessary for national security. Allowing a terrorist's relatives to demand full disclosure would be dangerous.

    One of the equitable remedies sought could be an injunction against the President absent judicial review or a specific law granting the President the power for this type of killing by a majority of the federal Congress.
    Checks and balances to reduce the chance of corruption is desirable as long as they are reasonable. But requiring the same burden of proof as in civilian cases would simply be bad policy. It would favor the rights of enemies over the security of the nation.

  3. #43
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    We are in war.

    I repeat, we are in war and have been for a while.

    I was not surprised that anwar was killed and had pegged him myself as dangerous before he was killed.

  4. #44
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    We are in war.

    I repeat, we are in war and have been for a while.

    I was not surprised that anwar was killed and had pegged him myself as dangerous before he was killed.
    Will we be in a war forever? The concept of a war on terror sounds like one that never ends. People are afraid of it as a mere excuse to indefinitely use sweeping powers.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #45
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Will we be in a war forever? The concept of a war on terror sounds like one that never ends. People are afraid of it as a mere excuse to indefinitely use sweeping powers.
    When it ends it ends. But it hasn't ended yet. I don't know about you but wouldn't go around poking at people on the warpath.

  6. #46
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    We are in war.

    I repeat, we are in war and have been for a while.

    I was not surprised that anwar was killed and had pegged him myself as dangerous before he was killed.
    How are you in war?

    In the political sense, there is no literal war. No one went to the UN and no one signed formal papers stating why they were doing things. Effectively, this is a metaphor to describe why there is collective shooting bombing and dying going on.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  7. #47
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    How are you in war?

    In the political sense, there is no literal war. No one went to the UN and no one signed formal papers stating why they were doing things. Effectively, this is a metaphor to describe why there is collective shooting bombing and dying going on.
    The old rules of engagement have gone by the wayside since guerilla warfare in Vietnam (not to mention hiroshima).
    Both sides are guilty of this.

  8. #48
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Somewhat random, somewhat off-topic, I never wanted to vote for Obama. If Hillary Clinton was doing these things, at least we wouldn't be surprised. I've lost whatever hope I had for Obama a while ago, but I have even less faith in his supporters. Judge the man on what he does, not what he promised he'd do.

    The most disappointing thing is that Obama sanctions these clearly unconstitutional and morally grey or just downright scuzzy things and for what? To get re-elected. To get some of the folks on the fence for the Tea Party. To be like George Bush Sr. and Jr.

    Considering the high road he asserted during his election campaign, I'm pretty disgusted by his camp now. Since a president isn't just 1 person, it's a whole machine.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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  9. #49
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    The old rules of engagement have gone by the wayside since guerilla warfare in Vietnam (not to mention hiroshima).
    Both sides are guilty of this.
    Rules in war start being broken at the moment of their creation. Most people's problem with this idea is that they think rules are made in war for ethical reasons. If that's the only justification for it, you can pretty much count on it never being followed.

    With that said: When I saw that he had been killed, my first thought was the topic of this thread...wondering about what it takes to justify killing an american overseas.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  10. #50
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    With that said: When I saw that he had been killed, my first thought was the topic of this thread...wondering about what it takes to justify killing an american overseas.
    Probably being identified as someone linked to terrorism against the U.S.

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