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  1. #141
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    That's saying the same thing with different words, and it smacks of rationalization. Dirty, dirty rationalization.

    To illustrate what I mean, I'll give an example where I take another valued human capacity and erroneously tie it to type in a way, like you've done, that makes it seem innocuous.

    Take, for example, intelligence. If I said that ESTJs are not necessarily less intelligent in all cases, but they just tend not to value it and consequently live lives that are not conducive to becoming intelligent, that's just the bullshitter's way of saying that ESTJs are less capable of being intelligent than other types.

    So I don't buy it. Others may, but I'd tell them to find a brain.
    You seem to turn very positive statements into negative ones. Sure, there are negatives to any situation, and negatives to any opinion. That doesn't mean someone is bullshitting because they focus on positives and not negatives.

    I don't see an istp as manifesting themselves in the way Steve Jobs has either, but I don't think that's a negative thing. I'm happy with what I am. Steve Jobs cannot be an istp, either.
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  2. #142
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    You seem to turn very positive statements into negative ones. Sure, there are negatives to any situation, and negatives to any opinion. That doesn't mean someone is bullshitting because they focus on positives and not negatives.
    It has nothing to do with being positive or negative, that's an obfuscation of the matter. It has to do with what is real and what is bullshit. If what's positive is not real, then it's bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    I don't see an istp as manifesting themselves in the way Steve Jobs has either, but I don't think that's a negative thing. I'm happy with what I am.
    If Steve Jobs is not an ISTP (and I don't think he is), it won't be because he's too "visionary" or comes up with too many "creative solutions."
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  3. #143
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    It has nothing to do with being positive or negative, that's an obfuscation of the matter. It has to do with what is real and what is bullshit. If what's positive is not real, then it's bullshit.
    It is real. It's just a different focus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    If Steve Jobs is not an ISTP (and I don't think he is), it won't be because he's too "visionary"
    It could be. Read the descriptions of the types. "Visionary" generally does not describe an istp.
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  4. #144
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Personally, I'm with ICUP on that too. I see myself getting inventive and creative on accident a lot actually, but when it comes down to it, I just want to fix things and be done with it too. And when it comes to other people, especially computers, I don't want to do it at all. I regret even telling people I know about them in the first place. With new people, I just play stupid. Fix your own shit.

  5. #145
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    If you guys want to say that you lack creativity or vision, that's fine, just don't blame it on your type.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #146
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    It could be. Read the descriptions of the types. "Visionary" generally does not describe an istp.
    I see you take the descriptions a tad too literally.
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  7. #147
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    If you guys want to say that you lack creativity or vision, that's fine, just don't blame it on your type.
    I didn't say that. Invention is something that happens for me at random, I guess. I don't sit around and theorize things, for sure. I admire that in others, but I don't do it. Put something in my hand though, and it may happen.

    My skills, if anything, are often artistic fields. I'm probably better at music than other activities. And even then, I'm not exactly inventive. I'm pretty self-aware how much I play just with my hands.. I like noodling around (best way to put it). My starting point is always the unknown - it just feels good to do. The end result might seem a little inventive, but I really wouldn't take much credit for it. It's more like the constellations just fell in place, and I had an ear to make sense of the opportunity.

    There's an even better musician than me that I'd type ISTP or ISFP - Keith Richards. I've always thought it cool that he says the same things. For example, he says he never writes anything. That songs are given to him. He's more mystical about it, but that's him. Like he said Satisfaction was "given" to him.

    This applies in other things I do. If I had a choice, I would follow a manual when fixing something. I'm not going to exert too much effort in reinventing the wheel. But once I'm working with something, I may see a new way of implementing a solution. It could be with computers. But it's not the really the first way I go about things.

  8. #148
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I see you take the descriptions a tad too literally.
    You are the one who is having problems with interpretation.
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  9. #149
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    i saw on the news earlier that sales of the mock turtleneck he used to wear have skyrocketed in the past few days. steve jobs: fashion icon.

  10. #150
    ThatGirl
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    I heard Steve Jobs' speech and I was very much inspired.

    I call Steve as my future guardian angel, and supernatural consigliere!

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