User Tag List

First 31112131415 Last

Results 121 to 130 of 191

  1. #121
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    Nope. Steve Jobs was no traditionalist. He invented solutions.
    This is wrong on three different levels.

    1. Being a "traditionalist" doesn't mean you don't "invent solutions."
    2. Being an ESTJ doesn't mean that you'll be a "traditionalist."
    3. Being an ESTJ doesn't mean that you won't "invent solutions."

    And this is all regardless of what "traditionalist" or "inventing solutions" mean specifically, and whether and to what extent Steve Jobs can even be said to have been an "inventor."
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #122
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,793

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    This is wrong on three different levels.

    1. Being a "traditionalist" doesn't mean you don't "invent solutions."
    2. Being an ESTJ doesn't mean that you'll be a "traditionalist."
    3. Being an ESTJ doesn't mean that you won't "invent solutions."

    And this is all regardless of what "traditionalist" or "inventing solutions" mean specifically, and whether and to what extent Steve Jobs can even be said to have been an "inventor."
    Well, regardless of any arguments, I don't think he is estj. I don't think the estj descriptions fit Steve Jobs, nor do I think any estj's I know are anything like Steve Jobs. He defies the descriptions too many times to fit. Other descriptions fit better.

    I think an entj argument is valid, and I think an entp argument is valid, but estj is not a consideration.
    ISTP 6w5 sx/sp
    6-8-4/6-9-4 Tritype

  3. #123
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    I think he was ENFJ.

    No way an ESTJ can create a Reality Distortion Field like he could. He was a normal, probably decent guy, but he had all the qualities of a Cult Leader, if you look at it comically somewhat. ESTJs are not traditionalists, agreed, but they do adopt and defend various existing realities. They do not sway people in the same way he does. He was always trying to take you somewhere new instead (whether it was bullshit or not).

  4. #124
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,793

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    ESTJs are not traditionalists, agreed, but they do adopt and defend various existing realities.
    This is a better description, but I think "traditionalist" still applies, for the most part. I think "adopting and defending various existing realities" is a part of being a traditionalist. Generally, not inventing new ideas, but focusing on already-established ideas. I consider myself a traditionalist also in this way, although I'm much more apt to change my belief systems and ideas than most estj's. I just hang-on to the old until I trust that the new is correct.

    "Tradition: an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behavior (as a religious practice or a social custom)" or "characteristic manner, method, or style". I simply think estj's focus more on the established and less on creating new inventions. It would fit the definition.
    ISTP 6w5 sx/sp
    6-8-4/6-9-4 Tritype

  5. #125
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    You do realize that you're saying ESTJs are constitutionally incapable of inventing anything, right? And you do realize that's profoundly stupid, right?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #126
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,793

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    You do realize that you're saying ESTJs are constitutionally incapable of inventing anything, right? And you do realize that's profoundly stupid, right?
    I never said this, I just said their focus lies on established-ideas, as mine does. That doesn't mean either of us can't invent something, it just means it's not our primary focus.
    ISTP 6w5 sx/sp
    6-8-4/6-9-4 Tritype

  7. #127
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    2,739

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    You do realize that you're saying ESTJs are constitutionally incapable of inventing anything, right? And you do realize that's profoundly stupid, right?
    Speculating on the types of dead people is already pretty silly. What conclusions can we possibly draw, and from what source? We know next to nothing about these people, only tid bits and fleeting glances into their minds.

    It is profoundly stupid

  8. #128
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    I don't even want to get into social traditions. I just think ESTJs more likely to follow custom or protocol when it comes to technology, for example. That's not tradition in any social sense.

    And I'm only saying they're inclined that way as far as what's comfortable to them. If I hang out with an ESTJ, when he has little on his mind, he's funnier and clever and lets loose.. and yes, can be inventive. And I'm pretty sure it applies to his work too. Maybe it's Ne, in his case. I don't think we're all slaves to dominant attitudes or anything like that.

    The difference with Steve Jobs though was he was always trying to make "history". He was always selling a vision. I can't count how many keynotes he made where he explicitly uses that too. And he was never much of a technologist himself anyways. He was a marketer and a people person. He had basic hacking skills, but he relied on Woz a lot in his early years - while Woz left up the bullshiting to Steve. His technological sense was in building teams and recognizing a good idea. Like the time when he first visited Xerox. He saw a little bit of their graphical user interfaces - among other things. In his words, he says he ignored a lot of the stuff they showed him. They were working on advanced networking, object oriented programming, and the GUI. He immediately latched on to the GUI concept and says he regrets ignoring the others. That is typical of Ni and Si, I think.. to hone in on one thing and build upon it. But it's Ni because he got so visionary about it, and created the Mac, and marketed it in a very bombastic fashion.. instantly placing it among an important move in history.. what with the whole 1984 commercial and Orwell references.

  9. #129
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    I never said this, I just said their focus lies on established-ideas, as mine does. That doesn't mean either of us can't invent something, it just means it's not our primary focus.
    Then take your own conclusions seriously. Whatever other reasons you have against Steve Jobs being an ESTJ, his having "invented solutions" is not a good one by your own logic.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #130
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,793

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Speculating on the types of dead people is already pretty silly. What conclusions can we possibly draw, and from what source? We know next to nothing about these people, only tid bits and fleeting glances into their minds.

    It is profoundly stupid
    I wouldn't say it's profoundly stupid, but there are definitely more productive things we could be doing. However, since I work alone, I choose to stay connected by passing the time on Typology Central.
    ISTP 6w5 sx/sp
    6-8-4/6-9-4 Tritype

Similar Threads

  1. Kaczynski is dead - along with about 100 others
    By Little Linguist in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 04-15-2010, 12:39 PM
  2. Another one bites the dust (Corey Haim is dead)
    By lowtech redneck in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-11-2010, 09:29 AM
  3. Its 3:00am NT board is dead. AMUSE ME.
    By Valuable_Money in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-22-2009, 09:23 AM
  4. Billy Mays is dead now too! Damn!
    By ajblaise in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 06-29-2009, 10:12 AM
  5. A Paradigm Shift or "Genius is Dead"
    By Eldanen in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-11-2008, 12:16 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO