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  1. #91
    Senior Member Wanderer's Avatar
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    I personally don't use macs. They're overpriced and while they have a "great user experience" it's only great for those who don't *use* computers for anything but itunes, internet, and picture editing.. I use computers for excel, (I like the experience FAR better on a windows computer) and gaming.

    I do appreciate the competition his vision fostered, which caused technological innovations that would have taken years otherwise.. and it remains to be seen if apple will continue to innovate or gradually slide into failure.

    For that reason I would say his death is to be noted, and considered a loss.

    I just have difficulty respecting a company whose chief marketing gimmick is centered around elitism - anyone remember those insufferable Mac vs. PC commercials? If your products are great, let them speak for themselves.

  2. #92
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    I'm not. But I think the little guys at work deserve just as much credit, if not more than Steve, since they're the ones that had to think of and implement the ideas.
    I totally agree.

    I mean, in any endeavor, the guy steering the ship's doing an important job and maybe determining where the boat ends up (directly), but without everyone else the boat would go nowhere. Still, it doesn't mean the guy steering didn't have a big job.

    It seems funny that people would dismiss Jobs, yet argue for two years about an upcoming Presidential campaign, if the President likewise isn't that important in some respect (setting direction and tone).

    There's also something to be said about the guy who ends up taking the responsibility (and blame vs praise) for the big direction decisions, even if there are many competent other people working on a project.

    He knew what the market wanted, that's for sure - though even then, how much of the guidance was by Jobs alone, and not with the help of a marketing team? He's just one part of Apple. Without the peons, where would Apple be? Apple may well survive without Jobs.
    If he planned well, it should. I don't think any one person should be solely responsible for success, or it means the organization was not properly constructed. There should be enough employee resources prepared sufficiently enough to carry on.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #93
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    Anyone else find it a little funny that hipster doofuses all over the US are on the streets protesting against corporations and yet they're probably the most vocal mourners of the face of arguably the most successful corporation of the 21st century so far?

  4. #94
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    Anyone else find it a little funny that hipster doofuses all over the US are on the streets protesting against corporations and yet they're probably the most vocal mourners of the face of arguably the most successful corporation of the 21st century so far?
    The masses be asses...

  5. #95
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    Anyone else find it a little funny that hipster doofuses all over the US are on the streets protesting against corporations and yet they're probably the most vocal mourners of the face of arguably the most successful corporation of the 21st century so far?
    I don't think anyone really protests corporations

    I think a lot of people protest corporate abuse and/or criminal activity

  6. #96
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    Anyone else find it a little funny that hipster doofuses all over the US are on the streets protesting against corporations and yet they're probably the most vocal mourners of the face of arguably the most successful corporation of the 21st century so far?
    Smoking crack affects the brain in strange ways.

  7. #97
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    Anyone else find it a little funny that hipster doofuses all over the US are on the streets protesting against corporations and yet they're probably the most vocal mourners of the face of arguably the most successful corporation of the 21st century so far?
    Yeah, I don't think they're protesting corporations, they're protesting big banks and big businesses that use money to influence elections and government decisions.

    They call it "separation of money and state", just like "separation of church and state". I think the fundamental idea behind it is essential, and it's about fucking time. There is so much corruption and conflict of interest, it's disgusting.

    From a practical standpoint, though, I don't know how we're going to get from here (government influenced by big money) to there (government not affected by big money).

    For example, if people can't contribute to political campaigns, then how will they be paid for? Tax money? I thought the solution was to put an upper limit on campaign donations, but some would argue that wouldn't work either, because large groups like unions could influence each of its members to contribute the max amount.

    So, I don't know what the solution would be.

    (The lobbying system seems like a good place to start, though.)

  8. #98
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    There's also something to be said about the guy who ends up taking the responsibility (and blame vs praise) for the big direction decisions, even if there are many competent other people working on a project.
    True as well, to some degree. I simply don't think people should give Jobs all of the credit for the end-products and designs, as some seem to, or to believe he was more important to the industry than many-other no-names. The one playing the role of manning the ship isn't always the one who should be given the credit or disapproval, as we know. I simply think Job's overall-importance is over-emphasized within the industry, because of his popularity, and not because of his real accomplishments. He wins the award for "most popular".

    I think some people also have trouble seeing that the president's job is more important than the others. If a belt breaks, the car doesn't run. All of the parts are necessary and vital, to keep a car running smoothly. I realize that from a social-hierarchy standpoint, the president's role is more important, but I'm not much into social hierarchies. Each part is the same as the next, to me.
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  9. #99
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    True as well, to some degree. I simply don't think people should give Jobs all of the credit for the end-products and designs, as some seem to, or to believe he was more important to the industry than many-other no-names. The one playing the role of manning the ship isn't always the one who should be given the credit, or disapproval, as we know. I simply think Job's overall-importance is over-emphasized within the industry, because of his popularity, and not because of his real accomplishments. He wins the award for "most popular".

    I think some people also have trouble seeing that the president's job is more important than the others. If a belt breaks, the car doesn't run. All of the parts are necessary and vital, to keep a car running smoothly. I realize that from a social-hierarchy standpoint, the president's role is more important, but I'm not much into social hierarchies. Each part is the same as the next, to me.
    Trouble is, though, we don't know who to praise. The only face and name we know are Jobs'...

    I get what you mean, though. Maybe we should say "the guys from Microsoft/Apple developed yadda yadda" instead of "Gates/Jobs developed yadda yadda"?
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  10. #100
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Steve who?

    I mean really!

    I do not feel saddened in the slightest. I imagine he had a preety nice cushty death high on morphine or the like in his luxuory pad with everyone he wanted there.

    My heart bleeds.

    But it bleeds for the millions of people who die too young to ever realise their potential and who suffer long and die in pain- alone.

    (of course it not only bleeds under these specific circumstances of death but you get my drift)

    Pfft.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

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