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  1. #611
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    The meltdown was an extreme example of what can happen when greedy people are put in charge and given free reign. That results should not come as a surprise to anyone. But the real problem with capitalist dogma is that it pretends that greedy behavior will naturally produce a favorable outcome for society. Thousands of year of civilization has failed to produce an enduring example of such a utopia.

    A proper level of checks and balance would recognize the fact that those in charge cannot necessarily be trusted.
    I have problems believing that any system will not become corrupt, given the nature of human beings.
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  2. #612
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    I know that you don't think that he literally believes what he stated about libertarians. Maybe I'm wrong though, maybe it's a mark of high intelligence to discount a political philosophy based on a few nuts and eccentrics all while avoiding discussing what they actually believe. What he said is the equivalent of calling every black person you meet a "nigger" because you got robbed by a black guy once. Why are you so intolerant?
    that's the worst comparison i've ever heard. how is someone's race at all similar to their political party? if someone's a libertarian, they conciously chose to associate with that party, and are opening themselves up to criticism.

  3. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    I have problems believing that any system will not become corrupt, given the nature of human beings.
    But it is still worthwhile to constantly strive for high ideals. Otherwise, society will degenerate and collapse.

  4. #614
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    But it is still worthwhile to constantly strive for high ideals. Otherwise, society will degenerate and collapse.
    Sure. I think the problem I have is that people keep beating the shit out of capitalism, as if it is in the wrong. No. Every society is wrong, right? As long as humans are in control, every system will be corrupt. I don't understand capitalism bashing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    It doesnt reward efforts, what freedoms? You have whatever freedoms its convenient for the wealthiest to permit you, see how free you are when the money required to have any choice disappears. Why would capitalism reward effort? It recognises no arbitrar other than price, doesnt matter how much effort you make if your not in short supply you'll not be valued very much.
    I have the freedom to do what I need to do in the world. I am presented with many opportunities. This has absolutely nothing to do with the wealthy. If I want to, I can start tomorrow and grow a business and make it great. I am free to be. I am free to believe, I have the freedom of choice.
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  5. #615
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    What aspects of capitalism do you find objectionable? If we do not tie rewards to productivity, how do we motivate people to work? Do you disagree that self interest a much more effective motivator than altruism?
    Listen, stop repeating all that hokum and think about it, capitalism is the price mechanism pure and simple, there is no reason that it intrinsically ties rewards and productivity, none what so ever, it actually ties rewards to what is profitable, it is exactly why it pays to have money or be occupied with "wealth management" as opposed to it paying to work hard, what has altruism and self-interest got to do with it too?

    To be honest that sounds more like an argument about normative ethics than economics, which really doesnt surprise me since this is exactly what economics is and has been for a long time.

  6. #616
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    I have the freedom to do what I need to do in the world. I am presented with many opportunities. This has absolutely nothing to do with the wealthy. If I want to, I can start tomorrow and grow a business and make it great. I am free to be. I am free to believe, I have the freedom of choice.
    Dream on.

  7. #617
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark
    You have whatever freedoms its convenient for the wealthiest to permit you
    Barring burning down my house, or whipping out an assault rifle and firing it through my bedroom window, what Oprah does has no effect on me.

  8. #618
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Dream on.
    Really? Well, I live here, I should know what my freedoms are. Thank you for knowing better than me what I can do, and have seen done a million and one times, in America.
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  9. #619
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    I sometimes wonder why people don't often make the connection between the idea of unregulated capitalism and criminal enterprises in this country.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    Sure. I think the problem I have is that people keep beating the shit out of capitalism, as if it is in the wrong. No. Every society is wrong, right? As long as humans are in control, every system will be corrupt. I don't understand capitalism bashing.
    In the West, more people are indoctrinated to worship capitalist dogma than to bash it.

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