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  1. #451
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    What's up with these attacks on people's jobs? How childish.

    Moreover, you'd think that if someone really didn't have a job for legitimate reasons, or were otherwise in the shitter financially, they'd be met with compassion instead of judgment. I suppose what Matt Taibbi said is true:

    "Nowhere else on the planet is it such a crime to be down on your luck, even if you were put there by some of the world's richest banks, which continue to rake in record profits purely because they got a big fat handout from the government. That's why one banker CEO after another keeps going on TV to explain that despite their own deceptive loans and fraudulent paperwork, the real problem is these deadbeat homeowners who won't pay their fucking bills. And that's why most people in this country are so ready to buy that explanation. Because in America, it's far more shameful to owe money than it is to steal it."
    I think this sums up a lot of attitudes in this thread.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #452
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Out of curiosity, are you personally familiar with what my job is? If you do, I'd like to know why you don't think it's a real job.

    Anyhow, you evaded my question, and on top of that, evaded with a hostile response. I don't see why this is so troublesome for you.
    Merely stating an opinion doesn't make a person hostile.
    And for the record, I don't evade.
    I simply choose not to converse with people who are a waste of my time.

    There's a difference.

    You've never been worth my time because you whine. And your favorite thing to whine about is people with money. You've done it for years. It's nothing new. Ironically, you could probably make a lot of money by starting a line of clothing for those who hate people with money. Go get em' Spongey!

  3. #453
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    By all means - let's blame Howard Schultz for the country's problems. A guy who came from a poor family, but had a vision and made it a reality. I walked into one of the first Starbucks, in Chicago. It was the late 80's. I applaud what he did, and I enjoyed watching him start with very little, and accomplish so much.

    One. Man's. Dream.

    Evil.
    There may be some people that consider all corporations evil, but that isn't what Occupy Wall St is about. Why is that so difficult for so many people (even including some of the protestors!) to understand??

    I applaud the guy who started Starbucks, I drink coffee there sometimes, and I support the OWS cause, and it is NOT hypocritical nor ironic to do all of the above.

    I think a lot of people get confused because they don't see the necessary distinctions. It comes from overly simplified black and white thinking, which is encouraged by media with political agendas to push. I'm sure many of the protestors themselves don't understand it, same with many of the people who oppose the protests.

    Basically, they are demanding separation of wealth and state, like separation of church and state.

    I don't know the best way to accomplish that, but I do know that deregulation and the direction we're headed now isn't it.

    The world economic crisis is very similar to Enron, but on a larger scale. None of the executives think they did anything wrong, because they don't believe they are responsible for the results of their own actions, even though they knew it would happen.

    I don't even think most of the people who work on Wall St did anything wrong, only the people at the top who knew everything would fall apart in the end, but did it anyway so they could make their money and get out. It was also the fault of the corrupt politicians who deregulated everything so that their friends could get rich, who would then pay them in return.

    IMO, OWS should probably be protesting the 0.1% who caused the problem, not the entire top 1%. They would probably get even more support and a lot less pushback if they were clearer about that, and if there wasn't so much confusion about exactly who they are protesting against.

    From wikipedia:

    They are mainly protesting social and economic inequality, corporate greed, corruption and influence over government—particularly from the financial services sector—and lobbyists.

    "Beginning from one simple demand—a presidential commission to separate money from politics—we start setting the agenda for a new America."


    (I posted this awhile ago, but thought the recent comments warranted posting it again.)

  4. #454
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Howard Schultz did recently issue this in an email to his employees and some other business people.
    Wow, if he is sincere (and I believe he is), that's awesome! Thanks for posting it.

  5. #455
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    We basically moved here for employment reasons. We were in Burlingame, and his company got bought out and moved HQ to Emeryville, so we moved for less commute.
    you belong in emeryville. strip malls and no soul.

  6. #456
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    There may be some people that consider all corporations evil, but that isn't what Occupy Wall St is about. I applaud the guy who started Starbucks, I drink coffee there sometimes, and I support the OWS cause, and it is NOT hypocritical nor ironic to do all of the above.

    I think a lot of people get confused because they don't see the necessary distinctions. It comes from overly simplified black and white thinking, which is encouraged by media with political agendas to push. I'm sure many of the protestors themselves don't understand it, same with many of the people who oppose the protests.
    The problem is, this is how they describe themselves, per their website:

    "#ows is fighting back against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process, and the role of Wall Street in creating an economic collapse that has caused the greatest recession in generations. The movement is inspired by popular uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia, and aims to expose how the richest 1% of people are writing the rules of an unfair global economy that is foreclosing on our future."

    It's simple, because it's simple, in their own words. The movement is targeting the 1%, and Wall Street as a whole. They physically attacked a Wells Fargo bank, who had a good track record. I can't support any group who does that, in good conscience. I don't attack people who I deem innocent. Innocent until proven guilty. If a group has their stuff together, I will support them, but they clearly don't. It's not possible to change what they do and believe in, to include your more-complicated version. Anyone who is an innocent Wall-Street'er, rich, or enjoys capitalism, is going to consider them a direct enemy. They have postured themselves to receive enemies. That's one reason why people say "they don't know what they are protesting". Because after reading their statements, you go there looking to find people who all dislike capitalists and Wall-Streeter's, yet not all of them do. In fact, the movement is "inspired by popular uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia", against corporations, banks, Wall Street, and 1er's as a whole. There is a disconnect between what the movement claims they are for, and what some of the protestors claim they are for.

    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    IMO, OWS should probably be protesting the 0.1% who caused the problem, not the entire top 1%. They would probably get even more support and a lot less pushback if they were clearer about that, and if there wasn't so much confusion about exactly who they are protesting against.
    Yes. There's no confusion. Just go to the website, and they will tell you exactly who they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    you belong in emeryville. strip malls and no soul.
    Come see me and we will see who has soul.... hey, I fight in the streets with the best of 'em! AND I jaywalk like mad.

    ----------------

    http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2009/03/...er-tarp-rules/

    "Still, Mr. Kovacevich said that had the bank not been forced to take TARP money last October, “we would have been able to raise private capital at that time, and with that private capital, given what is going on today, it is very unlikely that we would have had to reduce the dividend.”

    So yea, it's more complicated than just "deciding" that all the banks involved are "evil". There were banks who had to take on toxic assets when they bought other banks, as well. And with those banks having clean records, I see no point in attacking them, until there is a reason. My S.O. checks the books of Wells Fargo, and he deemed them clean during the time of meltdown. Why? Because he was going up there to close his account! lol........
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  7. #457
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    There may be some people that consider all corporations evil, but that isn't what Occupy Wall St is about.
    Joke or not, tell that to people who think like this:




    Whether it was originally intended or not, there are plenty of protestors across the country who are participating from an all-encompassing anti-corporation standpoint. It should surprise no one that OWS would be used by people with an old axe to grind.


    IMO, OWS should probably be protesting the 0.1% who caused the problem, not the entire top 1%.
    Exactly.

  8. #458
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    The problem is, this is how they describe themselves, per their website:

    "#ows is fighting back against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process, and the role of Wall Street in creating an economic collapse that has caused the greatest recession in generations. The movement is inspired by popular uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia, and aims to expose how the richest 1% of people are writing the rules of an unfair global economy that is foreclosing on our future."

    It's simple, because it's simple, in their own words. The movement is targeting the 1%, and Wall Street as a whole. They physically attacked a Wells Fargo bank, who had a good track record. I can't support any group who does that, in good conscience. I don't attack people who I deem innocent. Innocent until proven guilty. If a group has their stuff together, I will support them, but they clearly don't. It's not possible to change what they do and believe in, to include your more-complicated version. Anyone who is an innocent Wall-Street'er, rich, or enjoys capitalism, is going to consider them a direct enemy. They have postured themselves to receive enemies. That's one reason why people say "they don't know what they are protesting". Because after reading their statements, you go there looking to find people who all hate capitalists and Wall-Streeter's, yet not all of them do. There is a disconnect between what the movement claims they are for, and what some of the protestors claim they are for.

    Yes. There's no confusion. Just go to the website, and they will tell you exactly who they are.
    OK, in that case I will check it out, thanks.

    I support the core cause of protesting corruption, but not the stupid part that is due to lack of understanding.

  9. #459
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Whether it was originally intended or not, there are plenty of protestors across the country who are participating from an all-encompassing anti-corporation standpoint. It should surprise no one that OWS would be used by people with an old axe to grind.
    Yeah, it's unfortunate that some are turning it into that, because the original cause is really f'n important.


  10. #460
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Merely stating an opinion doesn't make a person hostile.
    I don't actually see how the "real job" comment is an expression of opinion. I do think it's reasonable for me to take it as hostile.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    And for the record, I don't evade.
    I simply choose not to converse with people who are a waste of my time.
    This, of course, is why I asked why you even bother posting anything since I imagine you'll just decide those who disagree with you aren't worth your time. I think what you just described probably is evasion in the event that you keep doing it only have you've taken a conversation a certain distance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    You've never been worth my time because you whine. And your favorite thing to whine about is people with money. You've done it for years. It's nothing new. Ironically, you could probably make a lot of money by starting a line of clothing for those who hate people with money. Go get em' Spongey!
    I don't whine any more than anyone else with a political opinion, and there's nothing wrong with that. Your understanding of my position is of course probably mistaken. I do believe we have a problem with excessive wealth concentration in this country, with a lack of regulation of how business is done and follow through on those who do commit white collar crimes, and a disturbing lack of social mobility (most rich people were rich when they were born). I'm not so sure whining about people with money paints that picture quite accurately. I'd also say there are issues I talk about as or more often than those (the wealth concentration thing might be at the top, though). I certainly don't just hate people with money.

    But to get more to the core of the point here, I read what your saying as "people who voice a political complain aren't worth my time, and the ones least worth my time are the ones I disagree with". Again, it comes to the question, why are you here and why do you bother?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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