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  1. #391
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Critical Hit View Post
    Wat.

    So... because he wanted money, he shouldnt support raising taxes. By that logic no one should support any taxes, at all. I mean... what?

    I feel like Im being Poes Law-ed here.
    Finding hypocrisy is a simple thing to do. I don't understand why some of you find it so difficult.

    Okay, if I say I support working, and tell others to "get a job", but I don't work myself for long periods of time, that would be saying one thing and doing another.

    Just like if I say I think the 1% should pay 70% taxes, but I am the 1% and I don't pay 70% taxes at all, that's hypocrisy. You can opt to pay 70% taxes. You don't say one thing and do another. If he wants to pay it, then why isn't he?

    "These so-called patriots are not sincere: "If these people want to pay more in taxes," says Rob Port at Say Anything Blog, "there's nothing stopping them." They could simply figure out how much the Bush tax cuts save them "and cut a check to the IRS for that amount." But they won't, because they're not out to be patriotic, they're out to score cheap political points."

    He has also claimed many times that he is not a member of the 1%, even though he is. And, and, and..... there's so much hypocrisy and lying surrounding this guy, he should get an award.
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  2. #392
    Senior Member Critical Hit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    for controlling the economy to work, you have to control it completely (aka complete communism) to get the desired outcome. even if this did work, it would lead to obscene amounts of corruption and hoarding.
    Where did you get this idea? Bro Tip: Almost every market on earth has some degree of control implemented on it without being Communist. This control, at least occasionally produces the desired effect or something close enough without having to control the entire economy.


    social freedom is not possible without economic freedom
    What is the logic behind this statement?
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  3. #393
    Senior Member Critical Hit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    Finding hypocrisy is a simple thing to do. I don't understand why some of you find it so difficult.

    Okay, if I say I support working, and tell others to "get a job", but I don't work myself for long periods of time, that would be saying one thing and doing another.

    Just like if I say I think the 1% should pay 70% taxes, but I am the 1% and I don't pay 70% taxes at all, that's hypocrisy. You can opt to pay 70% taxes. You don't say one thing and do another. If he wants to pay it, then why isn't he?

    "These so-called patriots are not sincere: "If these people want to pay more in taxes," says Rob Port at Say Anything Blog, "there's nothing stopping them." They could simply figure out how much the Bush tax cuts save them "and cut a check to the IRS for that amount." But they won't, because they're not out to be patriotic, they're out to score cheap political points."
    So these people want to return to a degree of taxes they had before Bush, but because they dont donate that money they dont really want it? These people are saying these things with the intent that it will influence policy in some way, so what are they going to do if they actually succeed? "Curses! Those blasted people gave me exactly what I asked for!"

    Does everyone who supports higher taxes for the rich have to write a check to the IRS lest their opinion be invalidated?
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  4. #394
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Critical Hit View Post
    So these people want to return to a degree of taxes they had before Bush, but because they dont donate that money they dont really want it? These people are saying these things with the intent that it will influence policy in some way, so what are they going to do if they actually succeed? "Curses! Those blasted people gave me exactly what I asked for!"

    Does everyone who supports higher taxes for the rich have to write a check to the IRS lest their opinion be invalidated?
    If they are in the 1%, and they support paying 70% taxes for the 1%, then yes. Otherwise, they are saying one thing, and doing another. Just like if I say to you, "I support working", then I have to work myself, else I am a hypocrite.

    Michael Moore sends his kids to private schools, employs overseas, etc. etc. etc. Everything that every rich 1%'er does, yet he throws on a baseball cap and rallies poor people. He's a hypocrite. If he wanted to be with them, he would be. But he's not, in any way. He says one thing, and does the complete opposite. He lives the life of a capitalist, while making money off of a system he claims to hate. He's an opportunist, just like the rest.

    I'm sure they are receiving far more payment for supporting the liberal party than what they would lose in taxes, if it happened. It benefits them in some way. Michael Moore, for instance, has made ALL of his money there. If he changed it, he would also lose his income, and who wants that? He can't afford to change it, because then he wouldn't be rich anymore.

    I can't assume people mean what they say they mean. There are many things going-on behind the scenes, and ways of checking-up on people. He fails the tests. You can't assume they are claiming to support with the intent of making it happen, especially when there is proof of the opposite.

    Michael Moore sits on national tv and claims he is not in the 1%, when he is. If that's not the biggest crock o shit I've ever heard ..... lol. He's nothing but an opportunist, who is giving up his ego in order to make a buck. Money means more to him than it ever would to me.
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  5. #395
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Yes, poor Bank of America. I feel so bad that they're catching flak on the street, even though they made the criminally stupid decision to buy and take on as its own a stinking, fraudulent Countrywide in order to save its own ass from a bad investment (which very shortly after lead to them having to be bailed out), hid $5.8 billion in bonuses from shareholders while they were taking over Merrill Lynch, and then proceeded to increase fees and interest rates, and illegally "robo-sign" foreclosures (in some cases, foreclosing upon people who didn't even have mortgages, resulting in a racketeering lawsuit that they'd eventually settle out of.)



    A lot of the problem would be fixed if criminals were treated like criminals, even if they do take the form of overfed, overtanned, spoiled Wall Street wheeler-dealers.



    We have had class warfare for a long time now. It's just never called "class warfare" when it's coming from the top-down, just as it's never called "wealth redistribution" when it's coming from the bottom-up. Also, who said that every single person on Wall Street is evil? Are you talking about a sign or something that reads, "Wall Street is evil?" Because that type of sloganeering is not to be taken literally. The basic idea is that those who engaged in criminal activity (of the same sort that your normal everyday fraudulent swindler would no doubt be held in the highest contempt for), which they undoubtedly did, should be held accountable.



    What a pointless thing to say. "Well, it's fine that the restaurant sold me diseased rat meat disguised as high-quality chicken, because if I were in that position, I'd probably take that risk, too."
    If this is truly how you feel, and you only see negatives in everything you look at in this country, I have no idea why you are here. It never ceases to amaze me how people bitch, moan, and complain everyday while they are sitting in a swamp, when all they have to do is walk out of the swamp. Why don't you move to a place that suits your viewpoints? I hated the South, and guess what I DID? I got up and moved to California, and now i love it.

    Sure, i think the banks as a whole could use some improvements, but I don't believe they are criminals. The Federal Government played a big role in this whole mess. I've got more studying to do, and so do you. I don't think any bank who was in a place to take on toxic assets during the place of meltdown should be physically attacked by anyone. That's just ridiculous. The government should keep their hands out of banks when they don't know the consequences of their actions. Something tells me that you don't want to blame the government because then that would mean they shouldn't be forcing banks to hand poor people mortgages they can't handle. Now, a Financial Aid bubble is being created, and when it bursts, guess whose fault it won't be? I'm sure people will find a way to blame everyone but the government. I can't find anything explaining that BofA was involved in such actions, either. They did purchase Countrywide, but I don't know the details. I'm checking into it.....

    I would think that a movement who describes themselves as being anti-Wall Street, would be anti-Wall Street, and they have proven themselves to be. They physically attacked a Wells Fargo Bank, who has a good track record, with no dirt on them. Until recently, when people decided to attack Wall Street, and anything having to do with a bank. If they attacked my business, I surely wouldn't be as nice as they were.

    At the end of the day, if you hate capitalism, there are plenty of happy countries who hate it too. Why don't you try your hand there? I'll be here, making money.
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  6. #396
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    At the end of the day, if you hate capitalism, there are plenty of happy countries who hate it too. Why don't you try your hand there? I'll be here, making money.
    Don't make too much money. You might end up in the "evil" 1%.

  7. #397
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    If this is truly how you feel, and you only see negatives in everything you look at in this country, I have no idea why you are here. It never ceases to amaze me how people bitch, moan, and complain everyday while they are sitting in a swamp, when all they have to do is walk out of the swamp. Why don't you move to a place that suits your viewpoints? I hated the South, and guess what I DID? I got up and moved to California, and now i love it.

    Sure, i think the banks as a whole could use some improvements, but I don't believe they are criminals. The Federal Government played a big role in this whole mess. I've got more studying to do, and so do you. I don't think any bank who was in a place to take on toxic assets during the place of meltdown should be physically attacked by anyone. That's just ridiculous. The government should keep their hands out of banks when they don't know the consequences of their actions. Something tells me that you don't want to blame the government because then that would mean they shouldn't be forcing banks to hand poor people mortgages they can't handle. Now, a Financial Aid bubble is being created, and when it bursts, guess whose fault it won't be? I'm sure people will find a way to blame everyone but the government.
    Your blithering ignorance is starting to irritate me. Yes, the government certainly enabled the banks to act like assholes, and they do bear a portion of responsibility, but I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge that the bank's behavior was just like that of a low criminal on the streets, only their idiocy had a much more heinous effect on the country than Leroy the dishonest drug dealer. No one forced most of these motherfuckers to give mortgages to poor people as a social program; the whole HUD/Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac thing was not the cause or the major problem (though they did contribute to the problem) of the subprime mortgage crisis.

    Also, don't give me any of that "if you don't like it here, then you can move" bullshit. That's just a way of closing down criticism and it's ultimately meaningless bullshit, which is what most of your post seems to be made up of.
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  8. #398
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Your blithering ignorance is starting to irritate me.
    Maybe us ignorant people can shoot you a loan. On second thought, we'll just make you beg for it and physically attack us, hoping we will throw you a bone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Also, don't give me any of that "if you don't like it here, then you can move" bullshit. That's just a way of closing down criticism and it's ultimately meaningless bullshit, which is what most of your post seems to be made up of.
    No, it's not. I just don't understand people who live miserably, and choose to moan, when they can improve their situations dramatically by taking action, today. Moving worked for me, and that's why I suggested it. You don't have to write off anything that may help you. The one thing I've found about people in situations as you are, is that they will do everything in their power to stay there, and that includes writing-off anything that may help them. You seem to be very critical and stand-offish of anything that may lead to your own financial success. I've noticed that you see no positives in anything, this being one in a line of many.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Yes, the government certainly enabled the banks to act like assholes, and they do bear a portion of responsibility
    Okay, that's more fair. Which is why it doesn't make sense why people are attacking only Wall Street. The main problem lies in the government, who should be in control.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    No one forced most of these motherfuckers to give mortgages to poor people
    That's not true.
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  9. #399
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Your blithering ignorance is starting to irritate me. Yes, the government certainly enabled the banks to act like assholes, and they do bear a portion of responsibility, but I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge that the bank's behavior was just like that of a low criminal on the streets, only their idiocy had a much more heinous effect on the country than Leroy the dishonest drug dealer. No one forced most of these motherfuckers to give mortgages to poor people as a social program; the whole HUD/Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac thing was not the cause or the major problem (though they did contribute to the problem) of the subprime mortgage crisis.
    Also, don't give me any of that "if you don't like it here, then you can move" bullshit. That's just a way of closing down criticism and it's ultimately meaningless bullshit, which is what most of your post seems to be made up of.
    because the government allowed the banks to do what they did legally. The government poured the alcohol; the banks drank it
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  10. #400
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Critical Hit View Post
    Where did you get this idea? Bro Tip: Almost every market on earth has some degree of control implemented on it without being Communist.
    I didn't word that very well. what I meant to say is that to control anything complicated, you need control over all of the variables or things will play out in unforeseen ways. incomplete government intervention only leads to bubbles and unforeseen consequences (some we are currently seeing are food shortages, rapidly decreasing oil supply, higher prices, inflation (devaluing of the currency as opposed to price inflation) lower wages and higher cost of living). the only way to solve these problems would either be substantially more government intervention (ie directly controlling the prices of food, oil, living costs and wages) or to substantially deregulate, let the market correct itself as it will and get rid of any corporations that would monopolize resources.

    This control, at least occasionally produces the desired effect or something close enough without having to control the entire economy
    perhaps the desired outcome for 1, 5 even 10 years, but sustainably? not even close. just look at how many hours the average American works now as opposed to 20-40 years ago when you could just get a 9-5 job, have only one parent work and take 4 weeks vacation.

    What is the logic behind this statement?
    economic freedom = power
    if a country's citizens lose their power and hand it over to the government, than they are at the government's mercy. an armed society is a safe, free and polite society. similarly, an economically free society cannot be controlled.
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