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  1. #331
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    The "government" doesn't just arbitrarily make decisions that Wall Street can capitalize on later. It doesn't work that way.
    That's what happened.
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  2. #332
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    That's what happened.
    That's absolutely NOT what happened. Damn, no wonder that idiot in that video can go around peddling his snake-oil so easily.
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  3. #333
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    That's absolutely NOT what happened. Damn, no wonder that idiot in that video can go around peddling his snake-oil so easily.
    Well, then explain what happened from your pov....
    You and I usually don't agree, anyways. I think Peter Schiff seems to represent my views. He didn't really sell me anything, he just represents from my pov. People like people who represent and are like them. I'm a capitalist, tried and true.
    I don't see how you could think anticipating the bubble and then telling it, would be the wrong thing to do. Peter Schiff many times, does what I think is right for others, regardless of who he is. I think about these things, character, when I am assessing people. I think about whether they are contributing to the workforce, and to others, in a positive way, and he does. I wouldn't call that idiocy. Just because I don't agree with his views, doesn't mean he isn't more productive to society than I am, or that he is an idiot. What right do I have to call someone an idiot, just because they don't agree with me? Unless that's the only way I can think of to retain my views, because I'm not strong enough to handle it without...... Maybe i just don't understand you. It seems close-minded, as if you are writing off other's views, much like you are claiming people have done to Wall Street protesters. Hypocritical?
    At the end of the day, I'm on his side. Why? Because it sure fucking beats standing around in a crappy park screaming about not having a car, or any of the other varieties of bullshit people were complaining about. If you don't have a car, use your opportunities in this country to go out and work and fucking get you one. I am lucky to be born in a country where I have the freedom to choose my own destiny. I think at some point, I get frustrated with seeing people concentrating on what they can't do and what others have, rather than concentrating on opportunities and what they could do, if they would just stop fighting the system. Work with the system at hand. It's not rocket science. I think one reason why these guys are telling people to go do it is because then they wouldn't be standing around in a park bitching; they would be out working, happy, and living. Do I think being angry is right, in this circumstance? Sure. We need to do something about it, but that something isn't what the people in Oakland or the people in the video, were doing.

    At the end of the day, I'm practical. If the government presents an unsustainable model, businesses will adapt in order to stay afloat. I'm not going to put devil horns on anyone who does so. I think it's ridiculous to just "decide" that Wall Street as a whole should just be put under an evil umbrella because of a few bad seeds. I think that's stupid. This whole movement physically attacked banks who were forced to accept bailout money from the government, and claimed they did not want it, and paid it back immediately. I don't think innocent banks should be attacked because others needed bailout money. In other words, someone didn't do their homework.


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  4. #334
    Member Rim's Avatar
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    1. I'm not from the US
    2. Tv is never a good source of information.
    3. What is going on?
    4. If the US fucks up again...plz don't drag the rest of the world down with you. The needless wars, "war on terror" and USA's imperialistic tendencies are getting scary/annoying. Life was tough enough before the economy crashed.
    5. People are starting to see the US as a fascist country. I'm serious. Everything is there.
    6. I'm a cynic :\ seriously peaceful protests don't do squat.
    7. Don't trust anyone in power...not even Peter Shiff. Everyone involved has an angle, something they want. It will never change.
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  5. #335
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rim View Post
    1. I'm not from the US
    2. Tv is never a good source of information.
    3. What is going on?
    4. If the US fucks up again...plz don't drag the rest of the world down with you. The needless wars, "war on terror" and USA's imperialistic tendencies are getting scary/annoying. Life was tough enough before the economy crashed.
    5. People are starting to see the US as a fascist country. I'm serious. Everything is there.
    6. I'm a cynic :\ seriously peaceful protests don't do squat.
    7. Don't trust anyone in power...not even Peter Shiff. Everyone involved has an angle, something they want. It will never change.
    you are wise my friend
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  6. #336
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    If the government presents an unsustainable model, businesses will adapt in order to stay afloat. I'm not going to put devil horns on anyone who does so. I think it's ridiculous to just "decide" that Wall Street as a whole should just be put under an evil umbrella because of a few bad seeds. I think that's stupid. This whole movement physically attacked banks who were forced to accept bailout money from the government, and claimed they did not want it, and paid it back immediately. I don't think innocent banks should be attacked because others needed bailout money. In other words, someone didn't do their homework.
    Did I hit a nerve? I just think that "libertarian" guy says some stupid shit, and since I think he's probably not a stupid guy, that makes me think he's probably a liar. Either that or he's yet another bloviating, Randian ideologue. I also thought that your comment about the financial meltdown of 2008 being orchestrated randomly by the government, and not the banks, was quite wrong. I didn't expect to have to hear yet another ridiculous "get a job, hippie, stop envying what other people have" speech, so I've only quoted the last paragraph of your response.

    There are so many silly things in this post that I don't know where to begin. For starters, read this about the bailout money repayment. Also, I don't know what kind of "unsustainable model" you're talking about. Finally, no one was forced to accept bailout money. I think you need to read in more detail about the bank debacle. They fucked themselves up by being greedy as fuck, and they were allowed to behave in the insane way that they did because years of lobbying and getting their employees into government eroded important regulations, and when shit went sour they were able to leverage their influence in order to basically be saved by nanny government from the disastrous fallout of their stupidity. Goldman Sachs in particular was demanding either that AIG pay up on the collateral owed them (after they found out that AIG had squandered all of it on yet more worthless speculation) or that the government step in and get them their money. They gave the government no choice. Betting on worthless horeshit mortgage-backed securities (basically playing hot-potato with shit they knew was worthless) in order to get quick up-front profits, allowing limitless speculation on commodities (driving prices way up), and pushing their BS subprime mortgages on suckers, among other criminally stupid things, has lead to the present state of things, including the protests, which they deserve. In other words, it would be incredibly naive to lay the blame entirely on the government and not on Wall Street.
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  7. #337
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rim View Post
    4. If the US fucks up again...plz don't drag the rest of the world down with you. The needless wars, "war on terror" and USA's imperialistic tendencies are getting scary/annoying. Life was tough enough before the economy crashed.
    5. People are starting to see the US as a fascist country. I'm serious. Everything is there.
    4. Don't have to, the banks have already drag quite a bit of the world with them. From Europe to Asia, it is all the same. If anything else, Greece would be the first to drag Europe down.
    5. Considering the work week here is definitely different from Europe and other countries, I can see why.

    @ICUP Two words, Credit Union. That aside, K Street has a hand in this too. After all, there wouldn't be these risky behaviors if there weren't lobbyists to create it in the first place. Where does it point back at? I'm just taking a stab at the answer, but my guess would be a bank lobbyist of some sort.

  8. #338
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    4. Don't have to, the banks have already drag quite a bit of the world with them. From Europe to Asia, it is all the same. If anything else, Greece would be the first to drag Europe down.
    5. Considering the work week here is definitely different from Europe and other countries, I can see why.

    @ICUP Two words, Credit Union. That aside, K Street has a hand in this too. After all, there wouldn't be these risky behaviors if there weren't lobbyists to create it in the first place. Where does it point back at? I'm just taking a stab at the answer, but my guess would be a bank lobbyist of some sort.
    the federal reserve banking system
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  9. #339
    Member Rim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    the federal reserve banking system
    I heard the FED is owned by the banks, it is private and not part of government. They just print and lend the money to the government. This would make sense observing the decline of the dollar's worth in time.

    US citizens are aware how deep in shit they are? You guys don't produce. I have never ever seen a product that had "Made in USA" on it. Everything says China or Japan, Germany, Taiwan here lol. As far as I'm concerned the only thing the US exported here was the CIA secret prisons. XD lol now the EU is pissed off at my country for allowing these. I'm pissed off too.
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  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    I think Peter Schiff seems to represent my views. He didn't really sell me anything, he just represents from my pov. People like people who represent and are like them. I'm a capitalist, tried and true.
    Shiff's perspective might sound good, but that's because he is presenting an idealized version of capitalism. What he described is the way the system is suppose to work rather than what really happens in practice.

    He wants the state to stay out of corporate affairs. Sounds good on paper, but look what happened. The lack of regulation allowed Wall Street employees to game the system for personal profit. They made reckless decisions which were good for the short term but were fatal to the corporation in the long run. This allowed them to take their bonuses and leave the mess for the taxpayers to sort out. Let them fail? It's not that simple. It would likely have led to the collapse of the global financial system and a depression like the one in the 30's.

    Note that in Canada where the banks were more tightly regulated, none of the major banks needed to be bailed out during the last meltdown.

    I am lucky to be born in a country where I have the freedom to choose my own destiny. I think at some point, I get frustrated with seeing people concentrating on what they can't do and what others have, rather than concentrating on opportunities and what they could do, if they would just stop fighting the system. Work with the system at hand.
    Why not do both? Maximize your own position AND work to correct systemic injustices. The two are not mutually exclusive.

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