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  1. #151
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I'm not seeing any of that going on. And it's because of that we see such a universal dislike of our current authorities. This is why we have both the tea party and occupy Wall Street. This is why congress itself has record low approval ratings, and both Democrats and Republicans are almost equally disparaged. The great majority of people, participating in protests are not, have voiced that they don't like the people in office.

    This is a relatively new development. This is some incredibly high gridlock we have going on lately. Was the system not being accountable before?
    1.) Its a political cliche that the American people hate congress but love their representative (i.e. the one who is actually accountable to them).

    2.) What has changed is that the two parties are now based more on ideological coalitions and less on regional coalitions, and the electorate (particularly the primary electorate) is likewise more polarized. Also, before the 2010 election we had spent a decade with only two years of divided government at the national level.

  2. #152
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    1.) Its a political cliche that the American people hate congress but love their representative (i.e. the one who is actually accountable to them).
    Why is the cliche more true now than before? Besides, we've seen such turbulent anti-incumbentism that I don't believe the cliche is holding.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    2.) What has changed is that the two parties are now based more on ideological coalitions and less on regional coalitions, and the electorate (particularly the primary electorate) is likewise more polarized.
    Well, that wouldn't contradict the concerns expressed here, would it? I don't actually see bimodalism forming, though. The two parties are doing totally different things. The Republican party has spent decades becoming more ideological. The Democratic party has spent decades becoming less ideological (all about that "big tent" crap). Maybe, maybe right now the Democratic party is seeing a serge in ideology or a solidification of some kind of platform.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Also, before the 2010 election we had spent a decade with only two years of divided government at the national level.
    The contrast can be made to times much longer than 11 years ago.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #153
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    What does the 99% want?
    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    A shitload of diverse and mutually exclusive things...just like the other 1%.
    From wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_St

    ...proposed a peaceful occupation of Wall Street to protest corporate influence on democracy, address a growing disparity in wealth, and the absence of legal repercussions behind the recent global financial crisis.
    "Beginning from one simple demand – a presidential commission to separate money from politics – we start setting the agenda for a new America."
    The core demands are not diverse. Basically they want separation of wealth and state, like separation of church and state.

    The political persuasions of the people protesting and the proposed solutions are diverse, though. That's why it's currently pretty nebulous.

  4. #154
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Why is the cliche more true now than before? Besides, we've seen such turbulent anti-incumbentism that I don't believe the cliche is holding.

    Well, that wouldn't contradict the concerns expressed here, would it? I don't actually see bimodalism forming, though. The two parties are doing totally different things. The Republican party has spent decades becoming more ideological. The Democratic party has spent decades becoming less ideological (all about that "big tent" crap). Maybe, maybe right now the Democratic party is seeing a serge in ideology or a solidification of some kind of platform.

    The contrast can be made to times much longer than 11 years ago.
    1.) Probably because our economy is shittier than before.

    2.) The Democratic electorate is currently less ideological than the Republican vote, because self-described conservatives outnumber self-described liberals by two-to-one; the Democratic representatives, however, are more ideological, as illustrated by the decline of the Democratic Leadership Council and the rise of the Progressive Caucus on the one hand, and the loss of the Blue Dogs on the other.

    3.) I have to go, I'll get to this one later.

  5. #155
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    From wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_St





    The core demands are not diverse. Basically they want separation of wealth and state, like separation of church and state.

    The political persuasions of the people protesting and the proposed solutions are diverse, though. That's why it's currently pretty nebulous.
    The core demands are clear cut and hard to oppose without sounding like an oligarchic douche.

    The point is, they can have whatever they want. Anything the 99% desires should be theirs, because we love democracy. Even with diverse political persuasions, moments like this can create solidarity amongst a majority wherever these people congeal together on a topic. But when the people make demands, it is called class warfare.

  6. #156
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    I'm glad to see that the movement is beginning to gain traction. If the current crisis and bailout of Wallstreet at the expense of the common people doesn't make people realize how broken the political and financial system is, I don't know what will.

  7. #157
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    His next task will be to take a shit on the dinner plates of those eating at The Plaza.


  8. #158
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    ...self-described conservatives outnumber self-described liberals by two-to-one
    My theory is that I'm going to blame it on Winston Churchill for saying this:
    “If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”

    So now all a stupid person has to do to make themselves feel smart is call themselves conservative and recall that quote. With that label, they can stop thinking (or continue not thinking if they never started in the first place). Voting is easy, and all conservatives have to do is keep up the misinformation + superiority game to hold onto those votes.

    Having said all that, let me clarify that I consider myself independent, but watching stupidity like Fox News makes me want to call myself liberal.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    His next task will be to take a shit on the dinner plates of those eating at The Plaza.
    Wallstreet already has.

  10. #160
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Let's be honest though. If we are to choose between starvation and cannibalism, it would make the most sense to eat the rich. There is a strong correlation between poverty and malnutrition, and another strong correlation between affluence and adequate nutrition. If you are going to murder and devour someone, you want to make it well worth it, because you're crossing all kinds of lines.

    My name is Beargryllz, and I would eat the rich.

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