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  1. #31
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    The corporations support the governments and the governments shelter and protect the corporations with special laws. There is no free market.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I'm not blaming the free market, since as heart says, no such thing exists in our day in age.
    But insofar as this is strict reductionism, and a mischaracterization, it is an imputation. Which corporations? Which laws? Why is it that countries with the most dominative governments suffer shortages of basic commodities, lack the ability to harvest them natively and can't trade for them? Who opposes exportation of foodstuffs -- globalists or progressives?

    If privation is the result of oligopolistic practices of governments and corporations, then I'm happy to welcome you as free marketeers. Let's have a competition to see who can ship bio-corn and water to the Third World and sell it for cheap first; but make sure to remove agricultural subsidies and trade barriers first.

  2. #32
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    Let's have a competition to see who can ship bio-corn and water to the Third World and sell it for cheap first; but make sure to remove agricultural subsidies and trade barriers first.
    I know you're being sarcastic, but it's on topic. The poor Africans I talked to don't even want us to ship them anything. It tears down their farming, which, due to the lack of education, is really integral to their growth/letting them have any sort of future.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #33
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I know you're being sarcastic, but it's on topic. The poor Africans I talked to don't even want us to ship them anything. It tears down their farming, which, due to the lack of education, is really integral to their growth/letting them have any sort of future.
    The Western world does awful things that keep people in developing countries poor, and it's not exporting corporations to buy/sell things there.

    1) agricultural subsidies in rich nations absolutely, positively make poor countries worse off, as they should be able to compete in a globalized market

    and

    2) the "aid" that we send over is often intercepted and sold/used as bribery by thugs in charge of these countries, which helps keep the very worst people in power

    Our farm policy in North America, Western Europe, and Australia is, frankly, shameful.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #34
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    But insofar as this is strict reductionism, and a mischaracterization, it is an imputation. Which corporations? Which laws? Why is it that countries with the most dominative governments suffer shortages of basic commodities, lack the ability to harvest them natively and can't trade for them? Who opposes exportation of foodstuffs -- globalists or progressives?

    If privation is the result of oligopolistic practices of governments and corporations, then I'm happy to welcome you as free marketeers. Let's have a competition to see who can ship bio-corn and water to the Third World and sell it for cheap first; but make sure to remove agricultural subsidies and trade barriers first.
    It seems you are ignoring some simple facts of reality. Private entities strongly influence political entities and they do so to protect their interests. That is the nature of the market in the modern world. Ideologies mean nothing in the real world, because nothing close to a free market can ever be achieved. Argue all you want that your value system is better because you embrace the merits of capitalism, but we simply don't live a world where there can be true competition. In other words, wish in one hand, and want in the other and see which fills up first. I guarantee you both ways you end up with empty hands. Principle means nothing in a world where private entities can utilize political entities to gain an advantage in the market. I'd be a market anarchist if I could believe the government could be separated from the market, but I'm not a fool.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  5. #35
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    so what can be done about it ?
    anyone have any suggestions ?
    I N V I C T U S

  6. #36
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    I'd help design a new water purification device, but I'm too busy working on my Volcano Death Star.

  7. #37
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvereX View Post
    so what can be done about it ?
    anyone have any suggestions ?
    You could budget your own water consumption or even donate money to charities that are working toward providing purifying machines. Also you could read up and learn about the water situation in your own area and voice your concerns though newspaper letters and petitions. You could even contact your Congressman and challenge them to do more. You can't save the world by yourself, but each individual can make some difference. If it is really important to you then some difference is always better than none.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  8. #38
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    You could budget your own water consumption or even donate money to charities that are working toward providing purifying machines. Also you could read up and learn about the water situation in your own area and voice your concerns though newspaper letters and petitions. You could even contact your Congressman and challenge them to do more. You can't save the world by yourself, but each individual can make some difference. If it is really important to you then some difference is always better than none.
    Indeed
    But oh how i want to save the world on my own
    at times, it feels like the only way
    argghhh
    I N V I C T U S

  9. #39
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    I'd help design a new water purification device, but I'm too busy working on my Volcano Death Star.
    Someone else beat you to it.

    I'm not sure if you guys caught the Colbert episode, but I throw my hat in the ring with this dude. He seems pretty well-informed about the intricacies of water as a commodity versus a necessity and a right. He also points out how relatively rare and fortuitous the states is for having so much of it to go around and how that affects the mindset of most Americans who approach the water debate.

    Don't worry NozFlub, you can work on some device that proves proves the existence of the invisible hand (that theory predated corporations, globalism, and general modernity by a few hundred years). It'll be like a Ghostbusters machine!

    BTW, it's not the creation of a water purification device that was the issue or the solution. It's the implementation and distribution.

    As a parallel, there is enough food in the world to feed everyone. The problem is distribution and access, not quantity.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  10. #40
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I didn't read the article but I think that's a shame.
    That, in a nutshell, is why we are where we are today.

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