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  1. #21
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    The punch line here is that a bureaucratic entity, functioning as a transnational oligarchy as it increasingly does the bidding of utterly non-commercial totalitarian governments, has again pronounced both self-evidence and physical proof of human rights quaint -- and half of you are blaming the free market. I will be purchasing a case of Aquafina in protest.

    Bonus tidbit, which Lee can explain in theory: through capitalism, the yield of apparently finite resources is ever increased.

  2. #22
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    damn straight, son

    You just won 10 Betty Crocker cool points for extraverts. You may pass go and collect $200.

  3. #23
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    Well, thank you. The trouble starts when one doesn't realize that nearly every day in the UN is opposite day. Remember 1948's Universal Declaration of Human Rights? The charter of a place where the national representatives of Hobbesian nightmares are deputized. So Canada's opposition was in fact a defense of the right to water.

  4. #24
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    I am not blaming either government or alledged "free market system".

    Is there a real difference between corporations and governments in the world today? They seem to live in each other's pockets to me. The corporations are also becoming more and more global all the time.

  5. #25
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    I think it must be remembered that this "big picture" gets "small"... almost all lands are owned by someone. Whether its a corporation or a government, they're going to get the resources from private landowners in most cases. That's why I mentioned the pipeline that walked on our property and took what they wanted with government sanctioning.. emminent domain... per the "needs of the many." So, you already have examples of where this is headed. Sure, people needing water sounds soooo moral... but so did "cattle need grazing land"... people need food! Thus way back, the bloody cattle baron wars of the old west (still going on today actually but in courts.) So does, people need fuel in the cold winter! or to cook with! sound so "righteous" depending on the spin.

  6. #26
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I am not blaming either government or alledged "free market system".

    Is there a real difference between corporations and governments in the world today? They seem to live in each other's pockets to me. The corporations are also becoming more and more global all the time.
    Yes, the compulsion/criminal justice factor is still a major difference. There are corporations I don't like or whose products I deem inferior to others, and I choose not to do business with them. If I were to, for instance, stop paying taxes as a protest against the war in Iraq, the government wouldn't change policy. They'd arrest me.

    I also don't think that natural resources are rights; water is a commodity and we pay for it. Even with regulated monopolies in modern society, we still pay for usage, and that is the proper method. Water (like electricity, gas) costs money to deliver, and to maintain. The concept of what is a "right" has gotten perverted, IMHO.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Yes, the compulsion/criminal justice factor is still a major difference. There are corporations I don't like or whose products I deem inferior to others, and I choose not to do business with them. If I were to, for instance, stop paying taxes as a protest against the war in Iraq, the government wouldn't change policy. They'd arrest me.
    The corporations support the governments and the governments shelter and protect the corporations with special laws. There is no free market. Corporations are more than just widget builders, they are powerful multi-national entities.

  8. #28
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    The punch line here is that a bureaucratic entity, functioning as a transnational oligarchy as it increasingly does the bidding of utterly non-commercial totalitarian governments, has again pronounced both self-evidence and physical proof of human rights quaint -- and half of you are blaming the free market. I will be purchasing a case of Aquafina in protest.
    I'm not blaming the free market, since as heart says, no such thing exists in our day in age. I'm blaming the greed of humanity. As long as there is government regulation, the market is not free, but regulation is necessary to keep the markets from being monopolized. It isn't our regulated market or the corporate financed politicians that are responsible, but simply greed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  9. #29
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    "Clearly [the Harper government is] happy with the status quo: They're not going to be an agent for change, and they're not going to support the right to water," said Maude Barlow, chair of the Council of Canadians. "About every eight seconds, a child somewhere in the world is dying from dirty water, and it's just shocking that our government has taken this position."

    The opposition Liberals supported the government's position last week, arguing that the original UN resolution could open the door to bulk water exports to the U.S. because of NAFTA...(more at link)
    Wow every eight seconds the right to live is denied by anothers right to do something more profitable instead.

    Second gulf war was fought to protect us from defective scud missiles or as Bush and Blair called them weapons of mass destruction.

    Taken from The New York Observer

    Taken from The New York Observer

    How mistaken were the war’s optimistic promoters in 2003? The official line on the expected cost of rebuilding Iraq after ousting Saddam was just under $2 billion, according to testimony provided by Bush administration officials. That estimate did not include the likelihood, according to Paul Wolfowitz, then the deputy secretary of defense, that Iraq’s oil reserves would cover the entire cost of invasion, occupation and reconstruction. Five years later, the estimated cost of the war to American taxpayers is well over $2 trillion, including the care we must provide for wounded Americans over the next few decades. Much of the Iraqi oil, whose production remains sporadic, is being stolen and smuggled away.
    well over $2 trillion discounting the U.K and other allies and thats one minor skirmish. How much has been spent on weapons and war exactly in the last hundred years?
    Tony Blair banged on about the rights of the citizen in IRAQ to freedom yet we deny millions the right to clean water by claiming it isnt a human rights issue at all???
    Have free markets around the world crashed due to both IRAQ wars?

    Basic Human rights seem relative to location and thats no right at all.

    I wont bang on about all those dead childrens right to dream, laugh etc cause they apparantely have no rights at all.

    A child every 8 seconds is 3,942,000 dead children a year, well at least it aint 4 million.

    how many jews died in world war two? are their rights any more valid? within three years the number of dead children due to lack of or dirty water will have exceeded the entire death toll of russians and jews in world war two.

    If im not on the point i guess my human rights ethics are slightly askew.

    Canada and America home of the free lol, pity you arent extending that noble declaration to dying children in foreign lands.
    Last edited by return-of-uni; 04-10-2008 at 10:04 PM. Reason: to apply basic before rights and correct typing error

  10. #30
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    I didn't read the article but I think that's a shame.

    People have been calling water 'blue gold' and the 'next oil' for some years now and I agree, this could get ugly. Make a necessary resource limited and highly sought after and make it an economic priority for a few to keep it precious -- and wow, I can see the blood trade already.

    You can give whatever reason you want for the impractibility of making potable water a reality and right for people, but you could also realistically say that about the right to food and shelter.

    I can also see how the UN (or some member states or some interests) would say 'no' because saying that clean/potable water is a universal human right opens the flood gates for environmental responsibility and stewardship and social accountability and scrutiny of human rights across the board and ask "how did things get this bad?" and that would really shake things up.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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