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  1. #41
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    By white person jokes, do you mean guerro jokes?
    Exactamundo. Hearing a redhead joke for me is probably sorta like a Caucasian Midwesterner hearing my mom (Hispanic) rant about wetbacks. (She has does that)

  2. #42
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I don't understand this at all. There are a lot of beautiful people with red hair. Hello? Angie Everhart. Not that it ends with her though.

    I mean, wasn't it once the ideal/standard in Rome and Europe at one point? I recall something about how it signified nobility. And that there were not only royals depicted as such, but also in many renaissance ideals of beauty.. like that famous painting of Venus.


  3. #43
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    and your comments about high school and community college teachers wasn't? My high school English teacher had a Masters degree at that time and eventually went on to teach at a major university, not because of the prestige, but because she felt increasingly stifled in her creativity in the classroom by legal changes in the public school system.

    Seriously, you made a classist assumption, in case you're unaware of why what YOU said in reply was equally belittling to an entire population of people...and what's more is that you were SERIOUS.
    Umm…okay. Not only did I personally go to community college…I have worked at 3 of them (and I certainly didn’t attend/haven’t worked at a school as prestigious as UC Berkley).

    So because of my experience…working at ‘em…I am well aware that they are allowed more freedom…as they are not as dependent on private donations, etc. - which is why people often choose to attend them in the first place, why instructors often abandon 4 years schools in favor of 2, and finally why, in many cases, community colleges afford you a better education. But yes. When I read what @chana wrote with regards to her instructor’s interpretation of the Neanderthal genome...blah, blah, blah…I recognized that ‘freedom’ part.

    Still…if you truly need to believe that I have some sort of ‘elitist mentality’…please don’t let me spoil your fun. I’m tired…this is totally off-topic…and I’m kinda done.
    Last edited by Starry; 09-24-2011 at 11:23 AM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarryKnights View Post
    Umm…okay. Not only did I personally go to community college…I have worked at 3 of them (and I certainly didn’t attend/haven’t worked at a school as prestigious as UC Berkley).

    So because of my experience…working at ‘em…I am well aware that they are allowed more freedom…as they are not as dependent on private donations, etc. - which is why people often choose to attend them in the first place, why instructors often abandon 4 years schools in favor of 2, and finally why, in many cases, community colleges afford you a better education. But yes. When I read what chana wrote with regards to her instructor’s interpretation of the Neanderthal genome...blah, blah, blah…I recognized that ‘freedom’ part.

    Still…if you truly need to believe that I have some sort of ‘elitist mentality’…please don’t let me spoil your fun. I’m tired…this is totally off-topic…and I’m kinda done.
    Oh so now you know how Chana feels, huh?

  5. #45
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I don't understand this at all. There are a lot of beautiful people with red hair. Hello? Angie Everhart. Not that it ends with her though.

    I mean, wasn't it once the ideal/standard in Rome and Europe at one point? I recall something about how it signified nobility. And that there were not only royals depicted as such, but also in many renaissance ideals of beauty.. like that famous painting of Venus.

    It was the ideal but they were also pretty conflicted about it, Venus' depiction as naked or losing her clothes in a lot of paintings is supposed to be an allegory for love or temptation causing you to lose everything, including "the shirt of your back" if some art historians interpretations are to be believed.

  6. #46
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    It was the ideal but they were also pretty conflicted about it, Venus' depiction as naked or losing her clothes in a lot of paintings is supposed to be an allegory for love or temptation causing you to lose everything, including "the shirt of your back" if some art historians interpretations are to be believed.
    I thought that painting in particular was celebrating it though.. It was from Botticelli, in the Medici era. They all reveled a bit in pagan imagery and pre-Christian thought. Hence, it was a "renaissance" (at least, that's partly why). The monk Savonarola caused a stir against all this, and it was only then that Botticelli embraced a more a chaste and pious lifestyle, depicting this from that point on. He burned many of his old paintings. Fortunately, he didn't own that one at the time apparently.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I thought that painting in particular was celebrating it though.. It was from Botticelli, in the Medici era. They all reveled a bit in pagan imagery and pre-Christian thought. Hence, it was a "renaissance" (at least, that's partly why). The monk Savonarola caused a stir against all this, and it was only then that Botticelli embraced a more a chaste and pious lifestyle, depicting this from that point on. He burned many of his old paintings. Fortunately, he didn't own that one at the time apparently.
    Yeah, some people are going to accentuate the rennaisance's pagan or unchristian content but its hardly that significant, that's a modernist working over of history you've got going on there. In reality most of the rennaisance painters were at pains to demonstrate continuities, consider Raphael's hall of athens and how he depicts philosophy having continuites with Christianity, its even located in close proximity to his painting which depicts the triumph of Christianity over the pagan world. That is unless you consider the whole thing was a kind of underground, coded, secret or closeted anti-Christian effort which couldnt speak its name, I'm sure that's popular.

    Anyway, my point was that when you consider how many of the paintings are saying the opposite of what they appear to superficially suggest, if you believe that, then the depiction of red heads may not simply be that they are the archetypal beauty but that they are depicting red heads because of all the popular hang ups about red heads being wicked or dodgy.

  8. #48
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, some people are going to accentuate the rennaisance's pagan or unchristian content but its hardly that significant, that's a modernist working over of history you've got going on there. In reality most of the rennaisance painters were at pains to demonstrate continuities, consider Raphael's hall of athens and how he depicts philosophy having continuites with Christianity, its even located in close proximity to his painting which depicts the triumph of Christianity over the pagan world. That is unless you consider the whole thing was a kind of underground, coded, secret or closeted anti-Christian effort which couldnt speak its name, I'm sure that's popular.

    Anyway, my point was that when you consider how many of the paintings are saying the opposite of what they appear to superficially suggest, if you believe that, then the depiction of red heads may not simply be that they are the archetypal beauty but that they are depicting red heads because of all the popular hang ups about red heads being wicked or dodgy.
    Lol.. modernism. I saw this coming.

    You're really wasting your time. I'm not attacking Christianity or anything, or coming from some devil infested "evil" secular point of view. I am a Christian. A horrible one, but I am one nonetheless. Take that for it's what worth. And no matter how you view that, there's no reason for you to assume so much about me or anyone else as to color my viewpoint without even asking, shadow boxing some phantom opponent, making points on things I don't give a shit about. Worse yet, you insult me for thinking I'm incapable of knowing anything about history.

    They were coming out of the medieval/dark ages. A lot of thought and approaches were lost. "Renaissance" is basically another word for resurgence. Be it with architecture, style, or philosophy. And for a brief period there, some of these people were hardly the hallmarks of Christian values. The Medici family, the benefactors of some of the artists, were corrupt as hell. The equivalent of a mafia family running large parts of Europe. A horrible situation - one that led further down the years to the Reformation itself. If it wasn't for their corruption and infiltration in the papacy, there might have never been a Martin Luther. Some of the things he protested, such as indulgences, were ideas enacted by a Medici pope.

    Anyways. Botticelli, among other artists, enjoyed them as benefactors, and virtually "partied with them", so to speak. His conscience kicked in later. As I mentioned, the monk Savonarola spurred this on. He, and others like him, had had enough. If the renaissance had been benign as you think, this guy would have not gone ballistic. He was the one who started his own historical period.. "The Bonfire of the Vanities". He burned a lot of the work of Renaissance down. Think for a second, man. Why would he have gone so crazy if the renaissance was so great for Christians. Obviously he and thousands of others didn't think so.

    Michelangelo is another story - he was aided by the Medici from an early age, but he had moral issues with them from the get go. He was a devout recluse, unlike Botticelli.

    I got a recent warning from an admin for calling you an idiot the other day, but you are an idiot. Maybe I'll get banned for insisting it.

  9. #49
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Gingers are gross. You occasionally see a ginger woman who's attractive, but the dudes are just blegh.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  10. #50
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-up Rex View Post
    Gingers are gross. You occasionally see a ginger woman who's attractive, but the dudes are just blegh.
    Let me guess: you're a sensor, and Kdude is an intuitive.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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