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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    agreed with all except the bolded
    1) as soon as we defeat one dictator, another arises. our next dictatorial regimes we will have to face will be the "global society" (aka the Global Empire) and the New World Order
    2) liberal democracy is a nice idea, but sometimes it is simply a fail. examples include
    - Jim Crow
    - Prohibition of Alcohol
    - Prohibition of Marijuana
    - illegality of gay marriage
    and several others

    in short, I am for liberal democracy within certain limits. the majority does have the right to force it's will on and oppress the minority or tell them how to live their lives. no one has the right to tell another person who they can marry, where they should sit on a bus or whether or not they should wear a friggin seat belt (seriously? THAT'S what our Congressional tax dollars are going toward? I want my money back). the purpose of a government is to PREVENT people from controlling each other, not to authorize it.
    The purpose of liberal democracy is the limitation of power of the government.

    This is achieved by the separation of powers.

    On the other hand totalitarianism seeks to maximise power. And this is achieved by one ideology and one party, like national socialism or communism or the islamic caliphate.

  2. #12
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The purpose of liberal democracy is the limitation of power of the government.
    This is achieved by the separation of powers.
    On the other hand totalitarianism seeks to maximise power. And this is achieved by one ideology and one party, like national socialism or communism or the islamic caliphate.
    fair enough, I would argue that America has virtually no separation of powers remaining and that the courts and Congress have become the executive branch's smoke and mirrors, but that's another topic. the problem is, true democracy cannot be sustained, which is why I am more for a republic than a true democracy in which the majority is allowed grounds to control minority populations, creeds and opinions.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    no, it's getting worse. the climate is going crazy and the economy is fucked. it's going to escalate, when people start not having money to eat you will start seeing conflicts on the streets and social unrest, like paris and london already. we're going to have a third world war. it's inevitable, we're at the end of a long paradigm that is clearly not working (capitalism). the only good thing is that after it gets so bad it can only get better. i just hope we can make it through the bad.

  4. #14
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    no, it's getting worse. the climate is going crazy and the economy is fucked. it's going to escalate, when people start not having money to eat you will start seeing conflicts on the streets and social unrest, like paris and london already. we're going to have a third world war. it's inevitable, we're at the end of a long paradigm that is clearly not working (capitalism). the only good thing is that after it gets so bad it can only get better. i just hope we can make it through the bad.
    - capitalism? you mean government sponsored corporatism, unsustainable military imperialism, high taxes, high borrowing, wasteful government spending and low productivity. this is especially true if you look at London, possibly one of THE most socialistic countries I can think of where income tax can exceed 50%
    - you're looking at far too narrow a time window. you are describing a trend about half a century long, but if you look at the general trend of mankind from Sargon to Sadam Hussein (about 5,000- 6,000 years of human society on a moderate to large scale) I believe the trend looks much more positive
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  5. #15
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Is the world getting better or getting worse?
    Or simply different?
    Our science and technology has improved dramatically over the last 100 years. Life expectancy is much higher in most countries. The world is becoming a much more interconnected place and people are starting to become much more aware appreciative of people whom they do not directly know. Human rights records are improving. In terms of the environment, it is a bit of a mixed picture. In many ways the environment in western countries has been starting to improve again. Climate change is a blip on the radar - we do need to get back to net zero emissions at some point in the future (eg 100 years from now), but this will happen regardless as we transition from fossil fuels to other energy sources.
    But there are still many difficult unsolved problems facing the world: 20-30% of the world's population still lives in severe poverty. There are still many ongoing military conflicts and the global level of civil rights and political freedoms is still poor.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    fair enough, I would argue that America has virtually no separation of powers remaining and that the courts and Congress have become the executive branch's smoke and mirrors, but that's another topic. the problem is, true democracy cannot be sustained, which is why I am more for a republic than a true democracy in which the majority is allowed grounds to control minority populations, creeds and opinions.
    And it seems that true democracy and liberal democracy are diametrically opposed.

    For liberal democracy limits the power to control minority populations, creeds and opinions.

    And liberal democracy and the separation of powers works fine to limit power here.

  7. #17
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And it seems that true democracy and liberal democracy are diametrically opposed.
    For liberal democracy limits the power to control minority populations, creeds and opinions.
    And liberal democracy and the separation of powers works fine to limit power here.
    where is here?
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    where is here?
    Oz.

  9. #19
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Oz.
    in that case, I'm happy that Oz has a free, prosperous and economically sound political system
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  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    - capitalism? you mean government sponsored corporatism, unsustainable military imperialism, high taxes, high borrowing, wasteful government spending and low productivity. this is especially true if you look at London, possibly one of THE most socialistic countries I can think of where income tax can exceed 50%
    - you're looking at far too narrow a time window. you are describing a trend about half a century long, but if you look at the general trend of mankind from Sargon to Sadam Hussein (about 5,000- 6,000 years of human society on a moderate to large scale) I believe the trend looks much more positive
    London's no way socialistic I call libertarian propaganda and lies. Again.

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