User Tag List

First 34567 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 77

  1. #41
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    INTj
    Posts
    1,650

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Civilized countries don't execute helpless prisoners.

    And civilized countries don't torture helpless prisoners.
    Why not?

  2. #42
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    1,492

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    To me, executing a thug who has a 1% chance of "innocence" is not as bad as failing to ensure justice for an murdered upstanding member of society. Principles like these serve to weaken the social fabric.
    Well, it isn't "innocence." It's innocence. Quotes not needed. I don't know why you would include them, but you seem to be casting aspersions or diminishing the failings of the death penalty. Additionally, this assumes that this is those "upstanding" (see what I did there?) members of society even consider to be justice. And that justice and revenge are the same thing, which is a large assumption. And what about those murdered by the system for crimes they didn't commit? They don't have a similar recourse against the system that wronged them. It is just "sorry, you got fucked, deal with it" for them?

    It is probably an impasse, but I don't think "avenging" a whole bunch of people by punishing someone who's already been and will continue to punished in another way is worth causing additional pain of killing another person, basically meaning that the total number of dead innocents is higher than if the guilty were just left in prison. I don't see how you can just say "sorry, wrongfully accused. The reason for your premature death is protecting and helping absolutely no one, but some people think it's a good thing to do to embrace the same kind of animal revenge mentality that end a lot of these people on death row in the first place and you happen to be the price of business! Hope that's worth being dead for!"
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  3. #43
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    To me, executing a thug who has a 1% chance of "innocence" is not as bad as failing to ensure justice for an murdered upstanding member of society. Principles like these serve to weaken the social fabric.
    How?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #44
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    1,492

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    How?
    Dammit, Orangey. Way to make me feel like I'm way too full of wind.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  5. #45
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,338

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post


    Leaving OUT the cost of legal fees, the drug cocktail they use to kill prisoners is actually HELLA painful ; they just can't scream because we put them under far enough. They still feel it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_....S._executions
    Besides which, the drug cocktail is also relatively expensive.

    And yes. A supersonic bullet that enters the brain and scrambles the gray matter to goo in the space of a 1/16 of a second is less painful than the chemicals that take minutes for you to die from.

    Regarding your comment re: legal fees.
    If it weren't for appeals, we wouldn't have so many rapists and murderers released on technicalities to rape and murder once more.

    It boils down to personal philosophy. Are you an idealist, or are you an ends justifies the means person? Would you rather have the occasional innocent executed, or dozens of innocents killed by murderers who should never have had a second chance?

    ...

    All of this is immaterial, and everyone needs to CALM DOWN. We barely execute anyone in the United States.

    That's maybe a thousand or so. MAYBE. IN THE LAST 50 YEARS. With a US population in the hundreds of millions!

    Do you know how OFTEN people murder, with witnesses, and NO DOUBT of guilt.. yet we do not execute them? Brian Nichols [who I already cited] is the most recent incidence of this in my area. WHY does everyone want the guilty to live? They have taken life from another. Justice says they should lose theirs in consequence.

    Whatever happened to justice?!? Why is everyone sympathetic to a thug who killed two people in one night? What about the family who lost their provider, husband and father? Doesn't that LOSS count for anything? Doesn't ANYONE see how WRONG that was?
    I don't believe in an "I" or an "I" and that's because murder has a large gray area attached to it. Maybe a man killed another man because his girlfriend or family member was being assaulted, maybe a man killed another man because his son or daughter was being sexually abused etc. There is a grey area involved and the jurisdiction needs to look at all possible areas before casting out the death penalty. Mind you I live In Canada and the death penalty doesn't exist and we still live in a fairly peaceful country. If you murder someone you get about 20 years in prison. Casting out the death penalty too easily would create too much fear in the citizens, It would also cause more innocent people to die which is not worth it. However I do think the death penalty should be given to serial killers/rapists.

  6. #46
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    6,168

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    Whoa whoa WHOA. You people seriously think he was innocent?
    Just read the wikipedia article that was already linked.. The entire chain of events that night says nothing to promote his innocence. This was not a man who spent his evening praying in church or staying at home with family. Troy Davis shot someone in the face for yelling obscenities while leaving a party (it's not alleged, by the way, he was convicted for that and the conviction held) and then that same weapon he used to SHOOT SOMEONE IN THE FACE earlier that night was then used to kill an ex-army police officer who tried to stop Davis from beating the shit out of a homeless person. The officer was shot in the heart, and then the face.. and McPhail never even drew his weapon.
    The chain of events that night also do not promote his guilt other than what the witnesses have stated of which 7/9 retracted their statements at a later period because of a feel of greater safety to the threats of complying to the initial standing.
    The evidentiary hearing was held in June 2010. The defense presented affidavits from seven of the nine trial witnesses whose original testimony had identified Davis as the murderer, but who had changed or recanted their previous testimony. Some asserted they had been coerced by police. Several implicated one of the original prosecution witnesses, Sylvester "Redd" Coles, in the crime.
    Promotes his innocence.

    Darrell Collins, who had made an August 1989 police statement that he had seen Davis shoot at people in a car in Cloverdale and approaching MacPhail, recanted his statement under cross-examination by the defense, saying that he made the statement after threats by police with prison if he did not cooperate. He said in court that he had not seen Davis in possession of a gun or fire one. No murder weapon – neither the gun owned by Cole nor that said to be owned by Davis – was ever recovered. A ballistics expert testified that the .38 caliber bullet that killed MacPhail could have been fired from the same gun that wounded Cooper at the Cloverdale pool party, though he admitted doubt about this. However, he stated he was confident that .38 casings found at Cloverdale matched one allegedly later found by a homeless man near the scene of MacPhail's shooting.
    Promotes his innocence.

    In December 2001, Davis filed a habeas corpus petition in the United States District Court. From 1996 onwards, seven of the nine principal prosecution eyewitnesses changed all or part of their trial testimony. Dorothy Ferrell, for example, stated in a 2000 affidavit that she felt under pressure from police to identify Davis as the shooter because she was on parole for a shoplifting conviction. In a 2002 affidavit, Darrell Collins wrote that the police had scared him into falsely testifying by threatening to charge him as an accessory to the crime, and alleged that he had not seen Davis do anything to Young. Antoine Williams, Larry Young and Monty Holmes also stated in affidavits that their earlier testimony implicating Davis had been coerced by strong-arm police tactics.
    Promotes his innocence.


    If there is significant doubt that a man is guilty do you give the man a death penalty?

  7. #47
    Senior Member Critical Hit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    338

    Default

    Dont know if this has been posted yet.

    There is no basis in text, tradition, or even in contemporary practice (if that were enough), for finding in the Constitution a right to demand judicial consideration of newly discovered evidence of innocence brought forward after conviction.”
    - SCOTUS Justice Scalia

    tl;dr

    "Fuck evidence."
    -Justice Scalia
    +10% Crit Chance

  8. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    INTj
    Posts
    1,650

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Well, it isn't "innocence." It's innocence. Quotes not needed. I don't know why you would include them, but you seem to be casting aspersions or diminishing the failings of the death penalty.
    The word can have different meanings. If the state mistakenly executed a man who was not guilty of homicide, but had a history of non-capital offenses such as torture or maiming, then I would be applauding. But if they executed a saintly citizen, I would not tolerate it.

    And that justice and revenge are the same thing, which is a large assumption.
    From a rational perspective, they are essentially the same. Balance must be restored. Evolution created the revenge impulses for a reason. Where severe transgressions are involved, I don't see any advantages in suppressing these feelings.

    And what about those murdered by the system for crimes they didn't commit? They don't have a similar recourse against the system that wronged them. It is just "sorry, you got fucked, deal with it" for them?
    But we are saying exactly that to the murdered. No system is perfect. I prefer a system that err on the side of upstanding members rather than the thugs.

  9. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    INTj
    Posts
    1,650

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    How?
    Systems which favor detractors discourage conformity to it's values. People won't follow the law if they don't respect it.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Sparrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,532

    Default

    Fe | Ni | Se | Ti ... 3w4 ... Lawful Neutral ... Johari -Nohari

Similar Threads

  1. Would you attend a public execution?
    By proteanmix in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 74
    Last Post: 07-02-2009, 02:26 PM
  2. Credit Suisse to pay executive bonuses with subprime debt
    By spirilis in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-30-2008, 12:43 AM
  3. Alan Davies
    By dynamiteninja in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-21-2008, 09:54 AM
  4. Execution
    By ygolo in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-07-2008, 12:39 AM
  5. Humane Execution ?
    By kuranes in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 09-25-2008, 01:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO