User Tag List

Results 1 to 8 of 8

  1. #1
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default Illegal Woman Chained to Bed During Birth

    Here's the article.

    I'm not sure why I'm posting this here, since I already know the trajectory the comments are going to take (the comments on the article are a good indicator), but I want to post this anyway for the purposes of general knowledge.

    Please do discuss.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/so
    Socionics
    IEI
    Posts
    2,841

    Default

    And yet again, human beings, the most civilized creatures on the planet, still can't be humane towards others. In all honesty, chaining a preagnant woman woh is going into labor has got to be one of the most atrocious acts I've ever heard of.

    Moral opinion aside, I think the reason that the police were capable of being that cruel is the same reason for why a majority of Americans show virtually no sympathy but rather hatred and malice towards illegal immigrants; they percieve illegal immigrants as a threat and categorize them as an 'enemy', as opposed to a freind. I mean most people (not all) typically divide people into freind or enemy, the former whom is treated with kindess and love, the latter whom is treated with contempt and cruelty. And since most Americans vehemently beleive in the power of the law to its greatest extent, as well as their own selfish desires, they see people whom immigrate illegally and take jobs as an enemy, and thus treat them as such. It's this sort of mentality that needs to be dealt with if we're as a species ever going to advance and grow better; showing universal love to all, regardless of how one wants to percieve them.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    MBTI
    HUMR
    Enneagram
    6 sx
    Socionics
    iNfp Ni
    Posts
    1,521

    Default

    When I read articles like this, I want to yak.

    Not because of the "human rights violation", not because of the current ILLEGAL-immigrant controversy, but because of the sensationalism and hyperbole at play. It's a fucking guilt tactic, appealing to altruism in hopes of supressing some of the more rational angles. I could break this down sentence by sentence and show how the manipulation of verbage, combined with a distorted perception of "unjust" laws and processes in place is fully intended to leave the reader with a horrific image of poor, innocent Maria chained to a bed while giving birth, for something as small as being in a country she shouldn't be in. I'm just not going to waste my time, because you either already see it, or you don't. Most people have their minds set on these issues, and will ONLY embrace supporting ideas. My beef isn't with the topic at hand, it's with the disguistingly biased news that permeates this country... and the idiot masses too lazy to get all the facts, think for themselves, and THEN conclude. Biased writings like this are a dis-service to society and knowledge in general. I ask, why is it so hard to just report the facts? To allow people to come to their own conclusions? Rhetorical. If it's not interesting, it doesn't pay.

    I'll add that my stance on the illegal immigration controversy is undecided, and I am NOT afraid of Pablo swooping in and taking my landscaping gig for $2.50 an hour. But what I'm seeing here is pretty one-sided. Which is why I'm slightly shocked at your inention of posting this particular article, @Orangey? From what I've seen in your other posts, you seem to have an outstanding ability at breaking shit down objectively. So I'm curious... what is your opinion?
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  4. #4
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    "human rights violation"
    It may well be a human rights violation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    ILLEGAL-immigrant controversy
    Why the emphasis? Are your colors showing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    It's a fucking guilt tactic, appealing to altruism in hopes of supressing some of the more rational angles.
    How dare they? Some of the world's worst atrocities have been carried out under the "rational" order of technocrats. As this is a moral, political, and legal issue, I think it's fair to say that rationality (as I assume you're conceiving it, which is to say some sort of practical/organizational rationality) is not the only impulse with which we must consult in our process of judgment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    a distorted perception of "unjust" laws and processes in place
    Again, they may very well be unjust.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    is fully intended to leave the reader with a horrific image of poor, innocent Maria chained to a bed while giving birth, for something as small as being in a country she shouldn't be in.
    Are you suggesting that her crime warranted her punishment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    will ONLY embrace supporting ideas.
    Indeed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    My beef isn't with the topic at hand
    Are you positive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    it's with the disguistingly biased news that permeates this country...
    You think this is disgustingly bad news?

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    and the idiot masses too lazy to get all the facts, think for themselves, and THEN conclude. Biased writings like this are a dis-service to society and knowledge in general. I ask, why is it so hard to just report the facts? To allow people to come to their own conclusions? Rhetorical. If it's not interesting, it doesn't pay.
    1. Reporting "just the facts" is no guarantee of objectivity, and in fact is often merely a ruse to mask and pass off ideological messages.
    2. Even if it were, it's by no means certain that it would be more desirable or educational than persuasive pieces.
    3. People can come to their own conclusions whether a piece is "biased" or not. The problem only arises when certain ubiquitous ideologies are passed off as "fact" so often and with such dominating force that the message is no longer capable of being recognized as "biased" at all, and in fact starts to seem like a natural fact of life (i.e., when it's part of heinous propaganda campaigns deliberately designed to deceive and coerce, not merely to persuade with the use of basic pathos arguments.)

    Moreover, the coverage of this particular story would seem to belie your suggestion that it was published for the sake of sensationalism. Do you see CNN, MSNBC, or Fox carrying this? Nope, just NPR, a few even smaller rags, and the Huffington Post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Which is why I'm slightly shocked at your inention of posting this particular article, @Orangey?
    My intention, as I said in the OP, is to share this information with others and to hear and respond to their thoughts on the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    From what I've seen in your other posts, you seem to have an outstanding ability at breaking shit down objectively.
    You assume already that this is bullshit. Why? Enlighten us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    So I'm curious... what is your opinion?
    My opinion is that I abhor the illegitimate use of force on any human (legitimacy here being based on my own judgment of the warrant for the type of force being applied, both in humanistic and rational terms, and less so on the actual laws in place, as those are also often illegitimate by my own standards.) As it concerns this case, then, I'm convinced that this was indeed an illegitimate use of force.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #5
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    That's it.

    Fuck the police.

  6. #6
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    When I read articles like this, I want to yak.

    Not because of the "human rights violation", not because of the current ILLEGAL-immigrant controversy, but because of the sensationalism and hyperbole at play. It's a fucking guilt tactic, appealing to altruism in hopes of supressing some of the more rational angles. I could break this down sentence by sentence and show how the manipulation of verbage, combined with a distorted perception of "unjust" laws and processes in place is fully intended to leave the reader with a horrific image of poor, innocent Maria chained to a bed while giving birth, for something as small as being in a country she shouldn't be in. I'm just not going to waste my time, because you either already see it, or you don't. Most people have their minds set on these issues, and will ONLY embrace supporting ideas. My beef isn't with the topic at hand, it's with the disguistingly biased news that permeates this country... and the idiot masses too lazy to get all the facts, think for themselves, and THEN conclude. Biased writings like this are a dis-service to society and knowledge in general. I ask, why is it so hard to just report the facts? To allow people to come to their own conclusions? Rhetorical. If it's not interesting, it doesn't pay.

    I'll add that my stance on the illegal immigration controversy is undecided, and I am NOT afraid of Pablo swooping in and taking my landscaping gig for $2.50 an hour. But what I'm seeing here is pretty one-sided. Which is why I'm slightly shocked at your inention of posting this particular article, @Orangey? From what I've seen in your other posts, you seem to have an outstanding ability at breaking shit down objectively. So I'm curious... what is your opinion?
    It's always nice to see the libertarians who claim to be all about freedom in staunch support of ...what was it? PABLO? ...being chained to the bed by the police?

    This is why I continue to believe that it is actually MY chosen party that represents REAL freedom.

  7. #7
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Just in case I wasn't clear, CHAINING ANY WOMAN (prisoner or not) to a bed during labor is...just violent abuse. This is separate from any particular opinion you have about illegal immigrants being deported.

    Can we be humane, even with people that you may personally consider criminals?

  8. #8
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Default

    I think the chaining to a bed is an over the top thing to do to a woman in labor who has no violent history (what kind of threat could she possibly pose?!), but these women are criminals suffering the consequences of their decision to immigrate illegally. I just don't think those consequences should include unnecessary shackling or denying a breast pump. You can prosecute these women & hold them responsible for their illegal actions without such cruelty.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

Similar Threads

  1. Going to bed in 50 minutes...
    By Shimmy in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-14-2009, 08:44 PM
  2. I'm going to bed
    By swordpath in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-30-2009, 03:11 PM
  3. The Libertine, I go to bed now thread
    By entropie in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 09-04-2008, 07:42 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO