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  1. #31
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stigmata View Post
    But isn't infringing upon their ability to exist long enough to develop their own plan essentially the same thing?
    Well, there is the potentiality argument. Does the crown prince have all the rights the king has? If a newborn baby must be protected, what about the unborn fetus, what about the sperms and ova?

  2. #32
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Rubes at the Carnival

    The interesing thing is that virtually all mothers adore their chiildren.

    And this smothering is an example so rare that is tells us nothing about mothers and their babies.

    But it does tell us an awful lot about us.

    It shows we are interested in freak shows.

    Yes, just like the old carnival freak shows - the rubes would come and gawk at the freaks on display.

    So it seems we are all rubes at the carnival of Central.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The interesing thing is that virtually all mothers adore their chiildren.

    And this smothering is an example so rare that is tells us nothing about mothers and their babies.

    But it does tell us an awful lot about us.

    It shows we are interested in freak shows.

    Yes, just like the old carnival freak shows - the rubes would come and gawk at the freaks on display.

    So it seems we are all rubes at the carnival of Central.
    The truth is in there: We are interested in the unusual, in what stands out.

  4. #34
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Actually, it is not my point at all. I used the composer because he also makes for a nice potentiality argument. The point is: He values his existence, other people are likely to value theirs as well, therefore one should not put an end to anyone's existence - unless [disastrous consequences if not killed].
    Ah, I see; sorry I missed that. I suppose I just feel that if he is dead, then his desires and values are a moot point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    There are ways to test this, but I'm not sure you'd be happy with the outcome.
    Would you be willing to elaborate on this a bit?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #35
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Ah, I see; sorry I missed that. I suppose I just feel that if he is dead, then his desires and values are a moot point.
    They are. Your perspective is perfectly reasonable. I still prefer to be left in peace and grant the same courtesy to others.

  6. #36
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    The difference between murder and anything less offenseive than murder ("manslaugher, combat killing, abortion") is entirely cultural. Our culture values the rights of the individual, which is why this is such a heated issue. It's not uncommon in history for humans to rightfully kill their children in scarcity of resources to feed them or for other reasons. Personally, I prefer our way.

    Here's where it gets tricky. Because I think, if you objectively look at it, a fetus is an individual, a person. I think the only line you can make on a person being an individual, without going down a slippery slope is at conception. Society has downgraded that status because nobody feels right with killing a person, we have to dehumanize it first. The same goes with war and any other types of legal killing.

    *This does not mean that I am anti-abortion.* In a pregnancy situation, you have two individuals to consider and weigh against each other. I don't feel anybody but the mother has the right to decide what's best in the situation. Maybe this is abused, but it's better than the alternative. The moment when this little person has the ability to be taken care of by a different person, besides the mother, is a good demarcation as to what should be within the mother's power and what shouldn't.

  7. #37
    Senior Member uncommonentity's Avatar
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    <Unpopular Opinion>I believe those who create have the right to destroy what they create.</Unpopular Opinion>

    Yeah, it's sad and all that moral business but this is just proof at how unviting the doctors office was to her. I doubt she killed them for funzies. More so, personal frustration. There's like barely any text on WHY she did it apart from fear that her parents would find out she was pregnant. So I'm taking a wild guess that she thought her parents would beat the shit out of her or whatever. Coward move or whatever.
    Veni, Vidi, Cessi.

  8. #38
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncommonentity View Post
    <Unpopular Opinion>I believe those who create have the right to destroy what they create.</Unpopular Opinion>
    Can fathers punch their impregnated partners in the stomach?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #39
    Senior Member uncommonentity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Can fathers punch their impregnated partners in the stomach?
    Can they? they do.
    Veni, Vidi, Cessi.

  10. #40
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncommonentity View Post
    Can they? they do.
    I apologize for my bad grammar.

    Now, please answer the question the way you know I meant it.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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