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  1. #1
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Default The inclination and disinclination to beliefs

    A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion.
    Francis Bacon

    I had rather believe all the Fables in the Legend, and the Talmud, and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a Mind.
    Francis Bacon

    I read these quotes from Francis Bacon a while ago, writing on the topic of atheism, and I wondered about it, particularly the second part. Does anyone experience that themselves?

    I've read an awful lot of really bitter, twisted and nasty remarks from atheists towards theists about their beliefs being akin to belief in fairies or "sky fairy" or the like. Its always made me think that their homes must be a anything but a barrel of laughs, filled with story telling and much imagination. And given me more reason to think that I like the second quote from Bacon all the more.

    Is there a relationship between atheism or its attendent cultural norms and decline in imagination or wonder or mystery?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Critical Hit's Avatar
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    This belongs in Philosophy not Politics.

    I've read an awful lot of really bitter, twisted and nasty remarks from atheists towards theists about their beliefs being akin to belief in fairies or "sky fairy" or the like. Its always made me think that their homes must be a anything but a barrel of laughs, filled with story telling and much imagination. And given me more reason to think that I like the second quote from Bacon all the more.
    People dont kill each other over fairies, people dont pass legislation based on fairies, people dont knock on my door at 10 in the fucking morning to ask me if I know the good word of fairies as revealed to the prophet Joseph Smith.

    "I had rather believe all the Fables in the Legend, and the Talmud, and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a Mind."

    Apply this quite to, well anything.

    "I had rather believe all the Fables in the Illuminati, and the Reptilians, and the NWO, than that this universal frame is without a Mind."

    ^If someone said that to you I bet you would laugh at them. After all someone who believes in something just because it makes their lives a little less sad and empty is pathetic right? But in all fairness you would have to give them the same break that you give Theists.

    Back to the subject of fairies this makes me think of Tavros from Homestuck: "Believing in imaginary things makes them almost real!"
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  3. #3
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Critical Hit View Post

    "I had rather believe all the Fables in the Illuminati, and the Reptilians, and the NWO, than that this universal frame is without a Mind."

    ^If someone said that to you I bet you would laugh at them. After all someone who believes in something just because it makes their lives a little less sad and empty is pathetic right? But in all fairness you would have to give them the same break that you give Theists.
    I'd still choose the former. Very few people understand how truly horrible the latter is because few people really truly believe it.
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    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion.
    Francis Bacon

    I had rather believe all the Fables in the Legend, and the Talmud, and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a Mind.
    Francis Bacon

    I read these quotes from Francis Bacon a while ago, writing on the topic of atheism, and I wondered about it, particularly the second part. Does anyone experience that themselves?

    I've read an awful lot of really bitter, twisted and nasty remarks from atheists towards theists about their beliefs being akin to belief in fairies or "sky fairy" or the like. Its always made me think that their homes must be a anything but a barrel of laughs, filled with story telling and much imagination. And given me more reason to think that I like the second quote from Bacon all the more.

    Is there a relationship between atheism or its attendent cultural norms and decline in imagination or wonder or mystery?
    Here is what I read

    Francis Bacon does not accept the universe as he sees it, and would rather have it some other way

    And holy shit, you are going to see some bitter, twisted, nasty remarks from people. I know lots of people who say absolutely terrible things. I don't actually know that many people or talk to people very often, but I still know that people say and do horrible things. Where does the relationship between a decline in imagination and the growth of creative insults exist? Aren't they mutually exclusive? Isn't rejecting a belief and coming up with a new one the exact definition of creativity? My mind is all over the place.

    Help me understand what you are saying

  5. #5
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Bacon said he'd rather believe it all as opposed to the athiest position which he felt was believing nothing at all.

    So I kind of imagine him responding to insults which rank God alongside fairies by saying, well then, I think I believe in fairies.

    I dont know whether or not your mind is all over the place you're the best judge of that, although I think that the real hardened athiests do lack imagination or imaginative impulses.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Critical Hit View Post
    People dont kill each other over fairies, people dont pass legislation based on fairies, people dont knock on my door at 10 in the fucking morning to ask me if I know the good word of fairies as revealed to the prophet Joseph Smith.
    Maybe they should.

    That's what I was left thinking after reading the book Beauty. Maybe they should. The faye and sidhe are too long banished from the world.

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    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    I have very active imagination and love of all things fantasy. I did so before I was an atheist and have continued just as passionately since I became one 10 years ago.

    I am failing see this correlation you seem to be inferring.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

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    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    People have always needed stories and I don't think the current, ironic spaghetti monster worshipers understand that. Their current stories resemble real life so closely, though, that they've failed to notice the difference between them and reality.

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    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    I have very active imagination and love of all things fantasy. I did so before I was an atheist and have continued just as passionately since I became one 10 years ago.

    I am failing see this correlation you seem to be inferring.
    But ZOMG you're an ISFJ, you're not supposed to have an imagination or like stuff other than cooking, cleaning or having babies!

    My brittle paradigm has been shattered!

  10. #10
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    But ZOMG you're an ISFJ, you're not supposed to have an imagination or like stuff other than cooking, cleaning or having babies!

    My brittle paradigm has been shattered!
    /pat

    Cooking and cleaning I can do, having babies though? Not so much, don't have the proper equipment
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

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