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  1. #11
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    It seems the times are pretty scary.

    The Military Commission Act of 2006 allows the US government to deny Habeas Corpus to "enemy combatants". And the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act gave Bush the power to declare martial law and take charge of United States National Guard troops without state governor authorization when public order has been lost.

    Add a domestic alliance with Canadian military and you start to wonder if somebody is planning something.

    This is beginning to concern me greatly, but it might just be that Ni going into hyperdrive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  2. #12
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I realize that, but the problem in this case would appear to be the efficiency of the U.S. I fail to see how depending on another country for domestic crises limits embarassment.
    it doesn't. but it saves the citizens, without the US govt having to pay for it. CAD will foot the cost of the rescue.

    plus, reduces all the fiddly top level clearance required for CAD to fly/come into the US. opens the channels straight.

    on a political front: wow, we two countries are hand in hand! i allow a foreigner to come in just like this! we're like this:

    so the US politicians gain mileage out of friendliness. plus not having to pay to rescue their own citizens.

    geddit? politics. they don't call it a dirty game for nothing.

    what does canada gain? i'm sure there's some kickbacks somewhere. check for the FTAs, and see if there's any reduced import tariffs, or reduction in visa requirements for CAD citizens to the US.

    politics. you just studied it, didn't ya. welcome to my former world. haha.

    edit: oh, damn it. i know what kickbacks canada received already. it can't be revealed in a public forum tho. heh. elf needs to go into mode. apologies.
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  3. #13
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I assumed all of that except the Canadians paying for it (which is a big deal). I can see the benefits of that, though.

    I am pro-economic incentives to Canada, though. We have to get NAFTA into gear somehow.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  4. #14
    More human than human MetalWounds's Avatar
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    I'm with Kiddo on this one...makes me wonder if it was created in preparation for a scenario that we haven't been informed of. What other logical reason does it have for existence? One can "read between the lines" all that one wants, but when it comes down to it the military is future oriented, and this is a huge step toward a larger goal, what that is I would like to know.
    I'm doing science and I'm still alive

  5. #15
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    Kiddo/MetalWounds,
    connect the dots:

    Habeas Corpus against 'enemy combatants' (think, against whom does the US uses this euphemism?). De facto military control to the President for emergencies. Alliance with a friendly neighbour for civil emergencies. The Patriots' Act.

    You can see the pic already, can't ya? cos i really can't get more obvious than this, and i really can't say more in a public forum.

    (and no, i'm not being flippant here at all. the links are there. See it. ) if you're interested in further discussion, PM me.
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  6. #16
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    You goons think this is a piss drop in the bucket of military control that is NATO and North Atlantic/aerospace strategic command? It's already consolidated; it was this way FIFTY YEARS AGO. This means nothing.

    Go read 1984 another ten times, kids. Your paranoia isn't up to a diagnosis-worthy level just yet

  7. #17
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    You goons think this is a piss drop in the bucket of military control that is NATO and North Atlantic/aerospace strategic command? It's already consolidated; it was this way FIFTY YEARS AGO. This means nothing.
    I agree.

    I would also like to point out that Canada destroyed her nuclear weapons in the early 1970s, so it has more or less been reliant on the cooperation of the U.S on security matters since. For example, from the 1960s to middle of the 1980s, there were American nuclear weapons in Canada, they were placed under dual control whereby both Canadian and American governments could launch them. Canada has has long assumed that the United States would use appropriate military force to deter any attack on their main economic and cultural ally happening.

    To be honest, I don't really see how this makes much difference, it just seems symbolic more than anything to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  8. #18
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    I've never heard of USNORTHCOM before I saw this article.

    USNORTHCOM's specific mission:

    USNORTHCOM anticipates and conducts Homeland Defense and Civil Support operations within the assigned area of responsibility to defend, protect, and secure the United States and its interests

    USNORTHCOM's AOR includes air, land and sea approaches and encompasses the continental United States, Alaska, Canada, Mexico and the surrounding water out to approximately 500 nautical miles. It also includes the Gulf of Mexico and the Straits of Florida. The defense of Hawaii and our territories and possessions in the Pacific is the responsibility of U.S. Pacific Command. The defense of Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands is the responsibility of U.S. Southern Command. The commander of USNORTHCOM is responsible for theater security cooperation with Canada and Mexico.

    USNORTHCOM consolidates under a single unified command existing missions that were previously executed by other DoD organizations. This provides unity of command, which is critical to mission accomplishment.

    USNORTHCOM plans, organizes and executes homeland defense and civil support missions, but has few permanently assigned forces. The command is assigned forces whenever necessary to execute missions, as ordered by the president and secretary of defense.

    Civil service employees and uniformed members representing all service branches work at USNORTHCOM's headquarters located at Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs, Colo.

    The commander of USNORTHCOM also commands the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), a bi-national command responsible for aerospace warning and aerospace control for Canada, Alaska and the continental United States.

    USNORTHCOM's civil support mission includes domestic disaster relief operations that occur during fires, hurricanes, floods and earthquakes. Support also includes counter-drug operations and managing the consequences of a terrorist event employing a weapon of mass destruction. The command provides assistance to a Lead Agency when tasked by DoD. Per the Posse Comitatus Act, military forces can provide civil support, but cannot become directly involved in law enforcement.

    In providing civil support, USNORTHCOM generally operates through established Joint Task Forces subordinate to the command. An emergency must exceed the capabilities of local, state and federal agencies before USNORTHCOM becomes involved. In most cases, support will be limited, localized and specific. When the scope of the disaster is reduced to the point that the Lead Agency can again assume full control and management without military assistance, USNORTHCOM will exit, leaving the on-scene experts to finish the job.
    I don't like this AT ALL. It sounds like Men In Black or something. I don't know enough about politics to have any type of real input but this shit reeks to the high heavens. This sounds like something that could be used against citizens in the future that nobody paid enough attention to when it was released and did nothing about.

    This is why I don't understand why people prefer to get caught up on bullshit hackneyed topics that go in circles with no real SOLUTIONS when stuff like this happens, get a small press release on some obscure government website, and no one breaks stride. And people were worried about Rev. Wright in Chicago??!! Where the hell are our national priorities?[/paranoid rant]


  9. #19
    heart on fire
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    Canada, U.S. agree to use each other’s troops in civil emergencies


    Neither the Canadian government nor the Canadian Forces announced the new agreement, which was signed Feb. 14 in Texas.

    The U.S. military's Northern Command, however, publicized the agreement with a statement outlining how its top officer, Gen. Gene Renuart, and Canadian Lt.-Gen. Marc Dumais, head of Canada Command, signed the plan, which allows the military from one nation to support the armed forces of the other nation during a civil emergency.

    The new agreement has been greeted with suspicion by the left wing in Canada and the right wing in the U.S.

    The left-leaning Council of Canadians, which is campaigning against what it calls the increasing integration of the U.S. and Canadian militaries, is raising concerns about the deal.

    "It's kind of a trend when it comes to issues of Canada-U.S. relations and contentious issues like military integration. We see that this government is reluctant to disclose information to Canadians that is readily available on American and Mexican websites," said Stuart Trew, a researcher with the Council of Canadians.



  10. #20
    Senior Member Noel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    What do Canadians think about this issue I wonder?
    This frightens me. Firstly, it looks like my retreat back home in case of an unrest in the United States is becoming less of an option. Secondly, why would canadians want to sacrifice their autonomy? Perhaps this is merely a foot in the door for the Amero? I've never been a proponent for the EU, for I think it destroys identity, specifically cultural identity.
    I may be bested in battle, but I shall never be defeated.

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