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  1. #1
    Senior Member Agent Jelly's Avatar
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    Default when you talk about politics

    Do you try to find common ground with people? Even if they have differing views with you? Yesterday when I was out eating at this restaurant I had this guy touching the bumper stickers on my car and teaching his preschooler son how to touch my car. When he came in the restaurant I asked him "is there something wrong with my car that you felt the need to touch it? And he said "I'm a conservative and I was just showing my family the stickers I liked" he said he only liked one, and that was the "annoy a liberal, work, succeed, be happy". Most of the bumper stickers on my car are pro military, and one says don't tread on me, and another says give me liberty or give me death... I don't see how this guy was conservative and only liked the one bashing liberals. maybe he was uneducated?


    Anyways this guy asked me who I supported and I said Ron Paul and he didn't want to listen to anything I had to say anymore because he was a Mitt Romney fan. I found this unnerving, maybe its the pregnancy hormones but I think it is far more effective to meet common ground with people than to reject them or just to spew your own shit that nobody cares about. My aunt is very liberal and an obama supporter but WE can actually listen and converse with each other without rejecting the other persons POV. And we can also find common ground!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I do think the narcissism of small differences is bizarre, to me, especially in the US context, there's no difference between conservatives and libertarians, its six and half a dozen really. They both DO believe that liberals are lazy/idlers, unsuccessful/envious and unhappy and annoying them is a good idea, there's a big consensus there, besides that I'm not sure why a conservative would have different views to a libertarian on militarism, if anything I'd suspect a libertarian would be less militaristic since there is the aversion to conscription and I'd have suspected that military intervetions would have been considered as worthwhile as domestic welfare interventions.

    Finally on the economy there'd be no difference between the conservatives and libertarians what so ever, in all seriousness I havent heard ANY conservative policy or propaganda which has attacked free markets in my life besides historical sources, the most recent of which that I can think of was Ian Gilmour's keynesian attacks on Monetarism in the eighties. They dont exist any more because the right wing consensus has been SO successful that even moderate keynesianism is considered anathema and akin to communism. Hayek prevailed.

    So what is being discussed as politics, or argued over when I encounter that, is usually uninteresting to me, a lot of the time its very personal to people, they're discussing their family norms and possibly their parents/grandparents/great grandparents values writ large, or what they think those are writ large.

    Very little point discussing that, challenging that. The only thing worse than that is the greater levels of ignorance you'll encounter among the even less politically interested, like the kid who recently told me that he learned in school that conservatism within Weimer Germany resulted in Nazism, that conservatives dont really like black people or people who are different and oppose equality, while commies are all about equality so probably "good".

    There are other versions of that simplistic and simplifying logic in print which drive me mad, most recently the book Comrade, world history of communism or something like that, which ignored all the cultural diversity, contexts and political disparity to conclude that not only where Russian, Chinese, Latin American, Eastern European sattellite state communisms all the same but they are also the same as Al Quida.

    To be honest, even on this forum, I've got to believing that peoples political persuasions are held with almost religious conviction and when they encounter those of a different persuasion the only purpose they expect them to fufil is to confirm their worst suspiscions or prejudices, if they dont, well, they'll tell them they dont know anything about the beliefs they actually profess, probably have professed, for some time and reached through careful and lengthy processes of discrimination and elimination, not like choosing a sports team to support or brand of cereal which has been advertised better than its rivals. I'm not interested in that, its easier to ignore than expend the effort trying to educate them. Even simply encouraging them to educate themselves by looking at the available sources is a waste of time, I usually find I could school most of those whose opinion I oppose in their own professed opinion while they couldnt give a shit about being informed on mine.

    I'm surprised you were pissed off at someone noticing your bumper stickers, surely that's what they're about? I know that that kind of thing isnt as popular here because it'd be considered an open invitation to vandalism or theft, people would use car window stickers more often but since that obscures the view they arent always popular and even when they dont it still is considered likely to invite vandalism, often by people who dont really understand what the sticker is meant to mean.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Agent Jelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I do think the narcissism of small differences is bizarre, to me, especially in the US context, there's no difference between conservatives and libertarians, its six and half a dozen really. They both DO believe that liberals are lazy/idlers, unsuccessful/envious and unhappy and annoying them is a good idea, there's a big consensus there, besides that I'm not sure why a conservative would have different views to a libertarian on militarism, if anything I'd suspect a libertarian would be less militaristic since there is the aversion to conscription and I'd have suspected that military intervetions would have been considered as worthwhile as domestic welfare interventions.

    Finally on the economy there'd be no difference between the conservatives and libertarians what so ever, in all seriousness I havent heard ANY conservative policy or propaganda which has attacked free markets in my life besides historical sources, the most recent of which that I can think of was Ian Gilmour's keynesian attacks on Monetarism in the eighties. They dont exist any more because the right wing consensus has been SO successful that even moderate keynesianism is considered anathema and akin to communism. Hayek prevailed.

    So what is being discussed as politics, or argued over when I encounter that, is usually uninteresting to me, a lot of the time its very personal to people, they're discussing their family norms and possibly their parents/grandparents/great grandparents values writ large, or what they think those are writ large.

    Very little point discussing that, challenging that. The only thing worse than that is the greater levels of ignorance you'll encounter among the even less politically interested, like the kid who recently told me that he learned in school that conservatism within Weimer Germany resulted in Nazism, that conservatives dont really like black people or people who are different and oppose equality, while commies are all about equality so probably "good".

    There are other versions of that simplistic and simplifying logic in print which drive me mad, most recently the book Comrade, world history of communism or something like that, which ignored all the cultural diversity, contexts and political disparity to conclude that not only where Russian, Chinese, Latin American, Eastern European sattellite state communisms all the same but they are also the same as Al Quida.

    To be honest, even on this forum, I've got to believing that peoples political persuasions are held with almost religious conviction and when they encounter those of a different persuasion the only purpose they expect them to fufil is to confirm their worst suspiscions or prejudices, if they dont, well, they'll tell them they dont know anything about the beliefs they actually profess, probably have professed, for some time and reached through careful and lengthy processes of discrimination and elimination, not like choosing a sports team to support or brand of cereal which has been advertised better than its rivals. I'm not interested in that, its easier to ignore than expend the effort trying to educate them. Even simply encouraging them to educate themselves by looking at the available sources is a waste of time, I usually find I could school most of those whose opinion I oppose in their own professed opinion while they couldnt give a shit about being informed on mine.

    I'm surprised you were pissed off at someone noticing your bumper stickers, surely that's what they're about? I know that that kind of thing isnt as popular here because it'd be considered an open invitation to vandalism or theft, people would use car window stickers more often but since that obscures the view they arent always popular and even when they dont it still is considered likely to invite vandalism, often by people who dont really understand what the sticker is meant to mean.
    when you are in kindergarten you learn to keep your hands to yourself and not to touch things that aren't yours. You shouldn't touch another persons car, its rude.

  4. #4
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    Do you try to find common ground with people?
    IRL yes.

    Here there isn't usually any common ground to be had.

  5. #5
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I absolutely avoid talking about politcs IRL unless it's with someone I know very well and consider well-adjusted. 1 second is enough: if they agree with you, end of discussion. If they disagree, you won't make change their mind so better stop directly.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Jelly View Post
    Do you try to find common ground with people? Even if they have differing views with you?
    I like finding common ground and hearing about different views as long as they're presented in a calm, rational manner. I am uncomfortable with hippy drama.

    In other words, don't hand me an article titled "Ruplican Evil" and start off telling me about how Ruplicans are evil because they impose restrictions on abortion or Republicans are evil because they are considering laws that would define a fertilized egg as a human being with rights. I don't see the evil there. How about saying you don't agree; why call it evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Jelly View Post
    I don't see how this guy was conservative and only liked the one bashing liberals. maybe he was uneducated?
    Maybe he's anti-war.

  7. #7
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Common ground is moot to me in real life or cyberspace. Different people have different perspectives so it's not a big deal and doesn't have to end with people trying to kill each other.

  8. #8
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I do think the narcissism of small differences is bizarre, to me, especially in the US context, there's no difference between conservatives and libertarians, its six and half a dozen really. They both DO believe that liberals are lazy/idlers, unsuccessful/envious and unhappy and annoying them is a good idea, there's a big consensus there, besides that I'm not sure why a conservative would have different views to a libertarian on militarism, if anything I'd suspect a libertarian would be less militaristic since there is the aversion to conscription and I'd have suspected that military intervetions would have been considered as worthwhile as domestic welfare interventions.

    Finally on the economy there'd be no difference between the conservatives and libertarians what so ever, in all seriousness I havent heard ANY conservative policy or propaganda which has attacked free markets in my life besides historical sources, the most recent of which that I can think of was Ian Gilmour's keynesian attacks on Monetarism in the eighties. They dont exist any more because the right wing consensus has been SO successful that even moderate keynesianism is considered anathema and akin to communism. Hayek prevailed.

    So what is being discussed as politics, or argued over when I encounter that, is usually uninteresting to me, a lot of the time its very personal to people, they're discussing their family norms and possibly their parents/grandparents/great grandparents values writ large, or what they think those are writ large.

    Very little point discussing that, challenging that. The only thing worse than that is the greater levels of ignorance you'll encounter among the even less politically interested, like the kid who recently told me that he learned in school that conservatism within Weimer Germany resulted in Nazism, that conservatives dont really like black people or people who are different and oppose equality, while commies are all about equality so probably "good".

    There are other versions of that simplistic and simplifying logic in print which drive me mad, most recently the book Comrade, world history of communism or something like that, which ignored all the cultural diversity, contexts and political disparity to conclude that not only where Russian, Chinese, Latin American, Eastern European sattellite state communisms all the same but they are also the same as Al Quida.

    To be honest, even on this forum, I've got to believing that peoples political persuasions are held with almost religious conviction and when they encounter those of a different persuasion the only purpose they expect them to fufil is to confirm their worst suspiscions or prejudices, if they dont, well, they'll tell them they dont know anything about the beliefs they actually profess, probably have professed, for some time and reached through careful and lengthy processes of discrimination and elimination, not like choosing a sports team to support or brand of cereal which has been advertised better than its rivals. I'm not interested in that, its easier to ignore than expend the effort trying to educate them. Even simply encouraging them to educate themselves by looking at the available sources is a waste of time, I usually find I could school most of those whose opinion I oppose in their own professed opinion while they couldnt give a shit about being informed on mine.

    I'm surprised you were pissed off at someone noticing your bumper stickers, surely that's what they're about? I know that that kind of thing isnt as popular here because it'd be considered an open invitation to vandalism or theft, people would use car window stickers more often but since that obscures the view they arent always popular and even when they dont it still is considered likely to invite vandalism, often by people who dont really understand what the sticker is meant to mean.
    Would you PLEASE learn the difference between conservatives and libertarians? Every time you post, you look more and more like an ignoramus.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #9
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Jelly View Post
    Do you try to find common ground with people? Even if they have differing views with you? Yesterday when I was out eating at this restaurant I had this guy touching the bumper stickers on my car and teaching his preschooler son how to touch my car. When he came in the restaurant I asked him "is there something wrong with my car that you felt the need to touch it? And he said "I'm a conservative and I was just showing my family the stickers I liked" he said he only liked one, and that was the "annoy a liberal, work, succeed, be happy". Most of the bumper stickers on my car are pro military, and one says don't tread on me, and another says give me liberty or give me death... I don't see how this guy was conservative and only liked the one bashing liberals. maybe he was uneducated?


    Anyways this guy asked me who I supported and I said Ron Paul and he didn't want to listen to anything I had to say anymore because he was a Mitt Romney fan. I found this unnerving, maybe its the pregnancy hormones but I think it is far more effective to meet common ground with people than to reject them or just to spew your own shit that nobody cares about. My aunt is very liberal and an obama supporter but WE can actually listen and converse with each other without rejecting the other persons POV. And we can also find common ground!
    If this happened to me it wouldn't even be about views or politics. You don't put your hands on my vehicle. End of story. If someone asks me who I support I'd tell them I don't feel it is polite to ask someone about something I do in the privacy of the voting booth. How would they like it if a perfect stranger asked them if they like the missionary position or doggy style?
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  10. #10
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    I try to not make the mistake of talking politics with other people because the majority of the people who are interested enough in politics to want to talk about also tend to be fervently biased in favour of a particular party or politician. I have my own personal political beliefs, only a few of which jive with any one party's policies, so I tend to make enemies pretty quick when I talk about politics.

    'Conservatives' see in me a kindred spirit when I say I support laissez-faire economics in principle, and then they'll froth at the mouth when I say I have no problem with gay marriage or abortions and other such things. 'Liberals' then think I'm a bleeding heart, but then I say bad things about the Kyoto Protocol and I become some corporate fat-cat in their eyes.

    Politics, when you get right down to it, really should be called something else because it's not about policies. It's about jingoism and demagoguery.

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