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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    It's the left/right in this system, as it is being practiced now, that I'm talking about as being tools of the same thing.
    Well, "despotism" is simply high authoritarianism, which is really a perpendicular dimension to left/right. Extreme left and right generally do veer into authoritarianism, however, because the "ideal" system ends up needing to have to be enforced.
    I dont know, its not simply the seemingly obviously ideological systems which involve an ideal to which reality is expected to approximate under the correct circumstances.

    A really simple example of this would be the stated expectation of the conservative-liberal coalition in the UK that by simply cutting government jobs and taxes in the UK the private sector would expand to provide jobs in there place, it never happened, there wasnt any evidence for believing it would and the national and international analysts, including the IMF, has told them to not to expect that this will ever happen. Chomsky can be a simplistic thinker sometimes but as he put it in one of his books private companies are not in business to provide anything other than profits and dividends to shareholders, they arent in business to provide jobs or benevolence, any that they do are just a kind of happy coincidence.

    So many of the projected free market ideologies are really only hopeful expectations or ideals too, in reality they would require a police state too, although it would be a police state many libertarians would be prepared to say was lawful provided it worked within the qualification of not interfering too much with private property or private wealth. It could have the same power as Big Brother in 1984 for all they care.

  2. #52
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think those prefixes and stuff are moronic and piss me off. I remember William Morris attacking the en vogue in his day for so called anarchist communism, describing on one occasion that he'd no need to prefix the word communist with anything.

    Orwell did the witty and creative thing of stating that he was in favour of socialism as I understand it which didnt mean that he may have been mistaken about it but that he had a particular perspective which he could call socialist but you would have to pay attention to his writing as a complete whole to know what he understood by that word. Which I like.

    Without EVER having dreamt of something such as libertarian socialism GDH Cole created a body of theory after reading William Morris' News from Nowhere and Robert Owen's books which owed more to Edwardian Liberalism than anything else and considered not material disparities in wealth and poverty per se as the greatest foes of socialism but servility. I like to think he'd have scoffed at the idea of libertarian socialism too, liberty is so much part of the program it really ought to go without saying, and I just know for sure that he'd have been surprised at the extent to which basic norms, such as personal responsibility or work ethics, have been co-opted by conservatives and libertarians and the extent to which socialists have let them do so.

    The ideas which form the body of geo-libertarianism or henry george libertarianism for instance only got an airing at all until lately in the early anti-bolshevik socialist literature in the UK, GDH Cole revisited some of it when he attacked the welfare state and the new stratification it heralded which he felt made socialism as he understood it, a classless society without servility, less of a prospect. Yes that's right he, a socialist, felt that weflarism was a greater obsticle to socialism than the free market capitalism which preceeded it!
    It doesn't really matter what it's called. The "libertarian" or "anarcho-" prefixes are there simply to distinguish socialism from the state authoritarian regimes that have come, from a variety of propaganda sources serving a variety of interests (see my Chomsky quote), to be associated with the term.
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  3. #53
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont know, its not simply the seemingly obviously ideological systems which involve an ideal to which reality is expected to approximate under the correct circumstances.

    A really simple example of this would be the stated expectation of the conservative-liberal coalition in the UK that by simply cutting government jobs and taxes in the UK the private sector would expand to provide jobs in there place, it never happened, there wasnt any evidence for believing it would and the national and international analysts, including the IMF, has told them to not to expect that this will ever happen. Chomsky can be a simplistic thinker sometimes but as he put it in one of his books private companies are not in business to provide anything other than profits and dividends to shareholders, they arent in business to provide jobs or benevolence, any that they do are just a kind of happy coincidence.

    So many of the projected free market ideologies are really only hopeful expectations or ideals too, in reality they would require a police state too, although it would be a police state many libertarians would be prepared to say was lawful provided it worked within the qualification of not interfering too much with private property or private wealth. It could have the same power as Big Brother in 1984 for all they care.
    I swear, you have never met an actual libertarian in your life. I want to know which libertarian writers you are reading.
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  4. #54
    Member amazingdatagirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Critical Hit View Post
    I dont think you could spout a more meaningless statement. WHAT PROBLEM ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
    Thanks for proving my point Crit. Reactionaries on both sides of the political spectrum seek to stamp out opposing opinion and stifle constructive debate.

    Waiting for an angry conservative to go off on my brown shirt Republican reference - any takers? Be sure to use plenty of CAPLOCK BOLD and exclamation marks!!!

  5. #55
    Senior Member Critical Hit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amazingdatagirl View Post
    Thanks for proving my point Crit. Reactionaries on both sides of the political spectrum seek to stamp out opposing opinion and stifle constructive debate.

    Waiting for an angry conservative to go off on my brown shirt Republican reference - any takers? Be sure to use plenty of CAPLOCK BOLD and exclamation marks!!!
    Id rather be right in ALL CAPS than wrong with perfect grammar and calm speaking.

    How am I a reactionary again? How am I stifling "constructive debate"? So my BOLDED CASPLOCKS somehow proves that "If you are looking to a political organization to solve your problems then you are looking in the wrong place."?

    (Bro Tip: Spouting meaningless phrases is not constructive debate.)

    BTW FROM THIS POINT ON ALL MY DEALINGS WITH YOU WILL BE IN BOLD ALL CAPS, K?
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  6. #56
    Senior Member Critical Hit's Avatar
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    Might as well keep this all in one thread.

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggxiBWv4xYE"]Conspiracy of Silence[/YOUTUBE]

    “Conspiracy of Silence”, a documentary listed for viewing in TV Guide Magazine was to be aired on the Discovery Channel, on May 3, 1994. This documentary exposed a network of religious leaders and Washington politicians who flew children to Washington D.C. for sex orgies. Many children suffered the indignity of wearing nothing but their underwear and a number displayed on a piece of cardboard hanging from their necks when being auctioned off to foreigners in Las Vegas, Nevada and Toronto, Canada. At the last minute before airing, unknown congressmen threatened the TV Cable industry with restrictive legislation if this documentary was aired. Almost immediately, the rights to the documentary were purchased by unknown persons who had ordered all copies destroyed. A copy of this videotape was furnished anonymously to former Nebraska state senator and attorney John De Camp who made it available to retired F.B.I. chief, Ted L. Gunderson. While the video quality is not top grade, this tape is a blockbuster in what is revealed by the participants involved.
    +10% Crit Chance

  7. #57
    Senior Member Critical Hit's Avatar
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    +10% Crit Chance

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