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  1. #41
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    You're wrong and I suggest you research the South factually. Shouldn't that appeal to your Te?


    But this is exactly the outcome of the Ni/Te duo and knowledge of basic chemistry and energetics.


    The so called hole in the system is the domain of science and has pretty much nothing to do with people , culture , ...... etc. The thing is that facts dont mean much here since there will be different world out there as the source of energy is changed. (and that is a scientiffic/strategic fact)




    So to put it bluntly you still havent answerd my main question : Which energy source will be used for the constant repairs of storm damages? (south and midwast)


    (I have expalined before why this question is important for the topic so I not do that again since basically it all comes down to this)

  2. #42
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    But this is exactly the outcome of the Ni/Te duo and knowledge of basic chemistry and energetics.


    The so called hole in the system is the domain of science and has pretty much nothing to do with people , culture , ...... etc. The thing is that facts dont mean much here since there will be different world out there as the source of energy is changed. (and that is a scientiffic/strategic fact)




    So to put it bluntly you still havent answerd my main question : Which energy source will be used for the constant repairs of storm damages? (south and midwast)


    (I have expalined before why this question is important for the topic so I not do that again since basically it all comes down to this)

    You propose a world where we are completely cut off, which is basically ridiculous. You propose a world which would never happen.

    That said, you've never been in a hurricane zone after a hurricane. I've been in one five times before and even during a storm itself.

    You see vast destruction. I see it too, but it's just a wind storm. Most...almost all the buildings are still there. The news focuses on the worst destruction picture they can get in frame.

    I didn't completely side-step the idea that we'd be without oil. I agree we may run out of oil, but it's unknown what kind of civilization we will have afterwards. I don't mean in the South; I mean globally.

    If anywhere else has energy, we'll have energy. In fact, if we move turbines into a hurricane zone, we may...in your ridiculous isolationist scenario...have more power than you.

    But let's say, for the sake of your scenario, that we are reduced to some kind of apocalyptic scenario without energy.


    Then I will remind you that there have been humans living in the Southeast for 14,000 years. Here is the history of Florida, for example. As I said, there is an exhibit just down the road that has a collection of buildings like houses, schools, etc. from the 18th and 19th centuries...before electricity was installed.

    Most of the destruction you see is from idiots who build very close to the beach. We'll they are not idiots, they are mostly very wealthy real estate tycoons. However, back 100 years ago, settlements built on barrier islands were made of scrap wood because people understood. They just gathered back up the scrap wood, and put the buildings back up if they wanted.

    I lived in various mobile homes, and during Ivan and Katrina, I coverd my windows with plywood. I just left the plywood up there because I like to live in the dark. If I weren't lazy and dark loving, then I could take the plywood down each time and have some windows.

    As I said, I used to work a public garden, which used to be an estate. Before hurricanes, we'd take out think plywood shutters and install them over the very expensive custom windows of that estate home. We also removed the plastic from greenhouses and put it back up after the storm.

    People who are used to hurricanes know how to prepare for them, and clean up after them.

    You are talking about a deep future scenario, I guess, but people lived here for thousands of years before modern culture and energy.

    Most people where I live hunt and fish. They go catch alligators in the river. They bait the deer. My co-worker neighbor at this facility spread corn and millet to attract the ducks so he could shoot them.

    I have a Masters degree in aquaculture, and I can raise fish with or without power, I believe.

    Actually I don't think well be without power. That's crazy talk. But, if so, then society would adapt.

  3. #43
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    Yeah, AntisocialOne needs to actually visit the U.S. then he's gonna feel embarrassed. OMG.

    What a shame.

  4. #44
    Senior Member fripping's Avatar
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    get back to me when this thread is about the southwestern u.s.

  5. #45
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Yeah, AntisocialOne needs to actually visit the U.S. then he's gonna feel embarrassed. OMG.

    What a shame.

    Yeah, even in my first post, I mentioned about the "without oil" scenario. I got it.

    He's the one missing the point.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    So to put it bluntly you still havent answerd my main question : Which energy source will be used for the constant repairs of storm damages? (south and midwast)
    What are the constant repairs of storm damage and why would this boogieman remain confined to the south and midwest? Do they actually exist? Do they actually represent a significant obstacle? Or are they infrequent, isolated, and trivial to address?

    Personally, I would imagine that regular rain (not from "storms") is responsible for a much, much larger amount of disrepair than all the hurricanes and tornados combined.

  7. #47
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Well, first of all, we don't truly know how well western civilization will survive strong oil scarcity (which I guess is bound to happen in around 20, 25 years?). Thus what is considered as western-inhabitable might change, namely the consumption of electricity might be lower and there might be a stronger focus on local farming. In that case southwestern USA could very well be abitable, given that strong sunlight and heavy rain are optimal conditions for argriculture (of course, freak storms aren't...).

    Your scenario is a plausible one, but I wouldn't say it's necessarily the highest probability one. For example, energy could be produced in nearby areas and transported over (of course some energy is lost in the process...). The cost of living would rise, in which case people will likely consume much less energy. Of course, without access to land (i.e. no possibility of subsistence farming) then lots of people would be displaced.

    It's equally plausible that some kind of protection device could be developed in order to shelter many renewable energy plants from freak storms. It would impair their energy-efficiency, but at least they won't be destroyed.

    One potential renewable source which can benefit from strong winds is Kitegen: http://www.kitegen.com/en/
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #48
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Here's another place with frontier (pre-electricity) buildings, which thousands of school children tour. They take pride in the pioneer heritage, when people settled this region before power.

    Also, if you want to see how humans lived for thousands of years in Florida before the invention of electricity grids, there's the Florida Museum of Natural History. There you could walk through and see how people lived. Again, thousands of children tour this.

    First, the notion that it will become uninhabitable is absolutely silly. Don't you agree?

    Second, you present no clear picture of what the future without oil will be like. I think I'll be Okay. I live in the country already. You don't picture the millions and millions starving in cities all over the world.

  9. #49
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Anyway, as far as transportation goes, I'm relatively optimistic: if we manage to develop high-powered solar sources along with projects such as KiteGen for wind, there could easily be a combination of say cycling / walking for short distances and trains for medium-to-long distance. I definitely see a problem for planes, though, but oh well - politicians will just have to use more Skype.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  10. #50
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    I can't wait for the South to go back 100 years. I'm gonna do cartwheels through the streets like Zelda Fitzgerald.

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