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  1. #21
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Can you please just admit you don't know what you are talking about?

    The hurricanes which even hit the coast of eastern NC don't even knock out the tobacco crops in western NC. I also don't know of a lot of people keeping their large quantities of livestock near the beach - I haven't seen a lot of cow or pig farms at the coast, they're usually a little further inland. You really, really are over-estimating how much damage these hurricanes do to the entire state, let alone the whole south.

    Besides, several states are totally landlocked, as I've already mentioned - including WV, which is where the coal comes from.

    New Orleans is a city, so there isn't a lot of farming there.

    I'm really truly puzzled, but I think you're just theorizing based on things you've seen on television or read about in news papers, and have a very limited scope of what the South is actually like.

    This is why I'm always bitching about experience, folks, this is why.


    But this concept has pretty much nothing to do with experiance ?!


    This is simply is theoretical model about the far future. However since the oil will be gone the alternative sources will need to be found and built. But since the region is often experiancing strong winds there might be problems with energy production. Also I am not basing this on some thing I saw on TV since I dont watch it at all. It is just that alternative sources as they now are fragile.
    On the other hand I have seen winds that are much weaker in intensity and they still caused damage. But in the era behind the oil era it is possible that damage is something that people will not be able to afford.








    Also I have never claimed that I am right. I have opened this thread exactly because I am wondering if this could be right.

  2. #22
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    It's also probably because the states themselves are declared "disaster areas" if the coast is badly hit...and I think that's more of a legal term describing that enough citizens and business have been affected by this occurrence to warrant federal aid, not literally that the entire state has been utterly annihilated.

    I think this would be a good documentary for him to watch, because he'll at least have a deeper understanding of what happened in New Orleans.



    Or it might confuse him more. But he really should understand that New Orleans is a major city and that it was horrible because of the sheer number of lives destroyed and because of the importance of the city itself, and not because it encompasses the entirety of the South. And New Orleans is also not Louisiana.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    But this concept has pretty much nothing to do with experiance ?!


    This is simply is theoretical model about the far future. However since the oil will be gone the alternative sources will need to be found and built. But since the region is often experiancing strong winds there might be problems with energy production. Also I am not basing this on some thing I saw on TV since I dont watch it at all. It is just that alternative sources as they now are fragile.
    On the other hand I have seen winds that are much weaker in intensity and they still caused damage. But in the era behind the oil era it is possible that damage is something that people will not be able to afford.








    Also I have never claimed that I am right. I have opened this thread exactly because I am wondering if this could be right.
    Your theory is bullshit if it isn't based in what the South is actually like. Whether your theory applies to the far future or not, there's not one reason why your theory applies more to the SouthEastern United States rather than to other parts of the country or the world.

    I'd really love for you to actually know what is in the South and observe it before you decide its fate, because it would make your theory closer to accurate.

    And of course you think you're right - you're an INTJ.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    It's also probably because the states themselves are declared "disaster areas" if the coast is badly hit...and I think that's more of a legal term describing that enough citizens and business have been affected by this occurrence to warrant federal aid, not literally that the entire state has been utterly annihilated.

    I think this would be a good documentary for him to watch, because he'll at least have a deeper understanding of what happened in New Orleans.



    Or it might confuse him more. But he really should understand that New Orleans is a major city and that it was horrible because of the sheer number of lives destroyed and because of the importance of the city itself, and not because it encompasses the entirety of the South. And New Orleans is also not Louisiana.

    Nice.


    1. And now explain to me how will you quickly repair all the damage along the coast if you dont have modern fuels ?



    2. Also the fact that the event in the New Orleans is rare does not mean much since I am talking about decades into the future. So there are actually reasonable chances that something like this could happen again. (perhaps even multiple times)

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    1. And now explain to me how will you quickly repair all the damage along the coast if you dont have modern fuels ?
    In America, many citizens hold gainful employment. Often, an organization may employ citizens to perform both simple and complex repairs. Fuels may be obtained from a variety of sources (possibly even the same sources that many Northeastern, Midwestern, and Western citizens employ)

  6. #26
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I think possibly if the Masters supermutants are allowed to carry on as they are now.

  7. #27
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    I know that my posting style in this thread can come across as a "foreign dickhead". But I just want to say that I am really curious about this and I will search and point at the potential holes and pitfalls wherever I find them. But I will not be doing that because of malicious intents.



    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    In America, many citizens hold gainful employment. Often, an organization may employ citizens to perform both simple and complex repairs. Fuels may be obtained from a variety of sources (possibly even the same sources that many Northeastern, Midwestern, and Western citizens employ)

    Correct.


    But that does not mean that you are out of the woods.


    For example it takes a very high temperature to create glass. (glass for windows)
    So if a storm brakes a large number of windows in a settlement how will you repair the damage ?

    As far I know the classical electric heaters cant push the temperature high enough to do the trick. (or at least that would consume huuggee amout of energy)
    So you will need chemical energy source instead of electrical. However that energy is likely to be scarse in the future if something completely new is not invented.
    I mean it is not trivial thing to achive temperatures that are measured in hundereds or thousands of degrees above "normal".



    But if you are going to "import" energy from the other parts of the country you will need plenty of energy for transportation. (what is not a problem today but it could be in the future) So it might be easier to just transport finished goods.


    However that could a problem also since the price of things that are hard to produce will go up. So it could be uncomfortable to lose even a tiny portion of these elements.

    It would be something like the health care these days. Big cost coming out of no where. So maybe some people will decide that they will move into some other part of the country since it is less risky. Not to mention that these days USA imports plenty of stuff. So the transportation route might be much longer.




    I mean I simply took glass as an example because it is pretty common, but actually it is not that easy to make it from scratch. However the same works for alot of other things that people use in daily life. Cars , computers , plastic stuff you put things into, chemicals ...... etc.




    But if a tornado or a hurricane comes you need plenty of energy and new resources to repair the damage. And this could be the source of the problems since the damage needs to be quickly repaired in order to continue with economic activity. (which you need to cover the cost of the storm)
    And as you can see repairing certain things constantly could be quite a challange without the oil.





    So if someone wants to offer a counter argument I am more than willing to listen.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    But that does not mean that you are out of the woods.


    For example it takes a very high temperature to create glass. (glass for windows)
    So if a storm brakes a large number of windows in a settlement how will you repair the damage ?

    As far I know the classical electric heaters cant push the temperature high enough to do the trick. (or at least that would consume huuggee amout of energy)
    So you will need chemical energy source instead of electrical. However that energy is likely to be scarse in the future if something completely new is not invented.
    I mean it is not trivial thing to achive temperatures that are measured in hundereds or thousands of degrees above "normal".
    Easy

    Determine the easiest way to get glass from any location X to static location Y. Important factors would include both cost and time. Once the easiest way (path of least resistance) has been determined, use that method to bring glass to location Y from location X. X could be practically anywhere.

    Now determine how much glass you will need over a period of time (call this Z or something)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_production#Marketing

    Use this to determine how much glass is to be produced, then move the glass from location X to location Y

    Wherein lies the difficulty? Can humans not make glass? What great misfortune must we be stricken with, to no longer hold the spark of creativity or determination to produce this simple, yet essential material?

    Energy is quite trivial, so trivial that we don't even have to exhaust ourselves working on ideal solutions like solar power, at least not yet. And when we do, we will.

    Instead, we could do other things like breaking the speed of light or playing Angry Birds

  9. #29
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    This thread is sort of amuzing. I've lived in the South basically all my life, from the time I was 1 year old. So I've lived in the South for 39 years.

    Also, I've always worked in either horticulture or aquaculture, so I've worked in agricultural related fields for the past 16 years.

    My brother in law coordinates hurricane clean up for a county bordering the Gulf of Mexico (as well as oil clean up).

    Personally, I've been actually in been in five hurricanes, including Freddy, Opal, Denis, Katrina, and Ivan. I slept through Freddy. I drove through Ivan. I sat on the front porch smoking cigarettes while watching Katrina.

    During Ivan and Katrina, I worked at a public garden. We cleaned up afterwards.

    Throughout the Southeast crews of power trucks go and repair these things. So if the power goes out in Alabama, crews come from Georgia, Florida, and all over to the area where the damage is. Also, the Red Cross and Corps of Engineers come. The Corps of Engineers brings military grade construction equipment.

    Personally I operate a fish hatchery. We have multiple generators, and enough fuel to completely power the facility for probably one or two months. We use a lot of power, and we pump around 150 million gallons of water per year.

    During hurricane Freddy (Frederic) it wasn't so bad. I'd say I was about 8 years old. Our mobile home (trailer) was 15 miles from Daulphin Island, which is mentioned in the link, and three miles from the bay. Therefore, the eye of the storm passed over us. We went upstate, and then drove back. As a child, it was sort of an adventure. By good luck the trailer was spared, but many thousands of trees were down.

    We carried buckets of water from the river for flushing the toilet or bathing. It was sort of like camping out, which was a common activity.

    I remember we drove back through Hurricane Ivan (which I admit was scary). The striking thing was the stars. I wish that people who agree to turn out all their lights so the stars came out like that every night.

    Anyway, I fail to see what would be the problem. If we run out of fossil fuels, it will be a problem for most of the world. However, I think I could adapt.
    Last edited by BAJ; 09-24-2011 at 06:00 AM.

  10. #30
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    With due repsect Antisocial One, a lot of your thinking sound kind of alarmist and seems to be making the assumption that the South produces most of it's own oil. I surmise we get oil in the same places everyone else does.

    Also, if oil did become such a scarcity that the southern states wouldn't be able to power their stuff, we'd have a LOT bigger problem than just the south not being habitable.

    To actually try and answer your question: We would be fine. There would have to be a lot of changes, really big decisions made, and rethinking how we do somethings, but we'd adapt and survive. we'd see the oil crisis coming years ahead and the local/state/fed governments would shift their policies to adapt.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

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