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  1. #21
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post


    The woman is a severe paranoid schizophrenic who was coerced by her husband to have more children after her doctor strongly advised against it.

    I see you don't understand what psychosis is.

    Yates didn't "get off" ...she's STILL in a mental hospital.
    And you think she was incapable of discerning right from wrong?

    I would have no problem with her being in a mental hospital...if she wasn't eligable to be released as soon as some psychiatrists decides she has recovered.

    Sorry, I don't think 'temporary insanity' is grounds for getting off on murder.

    I'm not entirely unfamiliar with psychological abnormalities btw...my personal history with OCD goes quite a bit beyond the 'can't stop washing my hands' thing...but fucking nothing excuses the murder of five children.

  2. #22
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    Andrea Yates wasn't "temporarily insane" she's a severe paranoid schizophrenic who wasn't taking her Haldol. One could argue that her husband should be arrested for gross negligence and abuse of a mental patient for coercing his mentally ill wife to stop taking her medication and impregnating her AGAIN. His family, his own mother, told him not to leave the children alone with Andrea for long stretches of time, as she was so severely mentally ill.

    Some schizophrenics can barely make it through their day, let alone care for five children. It's so preposterous I want to punch somebody, truly. Taking care of five children of different ages and needs alone is difficult enough for a totally sane woman.

    I think your opinion is devastatingly ignorant and frankly, a little frightening.

  3. #23
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think your opinion is devastatingly ignorant and frankly, a little frightening.
    As I do yours.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    As I do yours.
    But I'm not ignorant. I'm actually educated about mental illness and the details of the Andrea Yates case, while you're just offering your moral judgement.

    I'll accept you find my opinion frightening, though.

  5. #25

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    This is a shocking case but I've got to say that some of the comments in this thread I've found shocking, even sickening, too. I hope the same attitudes to infanticide, comparing it to abortion for instance, and not caring about the death of the baby one whit, are not representative of many.

    In terms of how this is being dealt with, I cant see this individual being rehabilitated, which means that they are likely to spend the rest of their natural days incarcerated for treatment. From the cases of insanity pleading I'm familiar with, in the UK and US, from studying criminology at uni and just being interested I know that most killers or criminals with rationales try very hard to avoid submitting claims that they are mad or in need of treatment because these submissions are likely to result in sentencing which is indefinite. Most of them prefer to try and be given a term, even if it is a lengthy one, with the prospect of release.

    I dont know which state it is in the US but there is one which has a massive, no doubt costly also, facility, the place is like a walled city, in which peadophiles and sex offenders are incarcerated for treatment, no one gets released from there, no one, as a consequence most offenders spend their time in legal action attempting to have their offences recategorised and get themselves sent to another prison. The means by which they judged peoples capacities for parole and other reviews, which they have to do, same as in the UK no one is held indefinitely without review, are so tight that there's no prospect of release.

    Personally, given some of the offences involved I dont think it was a bad thing.

    In this case of the woman killing her child, I dont think execution would achieve much which hasnt already been achieved, she's been taken out of circulation.

  6. #26
    violaine
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    I'm wondering if she concealed the pregnancy. She gave birth in secret, that's all I could glean from the article... Actually after reading further, yes, she concealed the pregnancy. That would indicate some kind of premeditation to me. It might not have been a smart plan but it seems she was going to conceal the existence of the child for as long as possible. Including ditching the baby too. If someone had noticed her pregnancy it would all have gone very differently. How sad.

    I haven't read much about this issue before but it seems potentially sketchy to me. In fact, some experts say you cannot develop postpartum depression within a day of delivery but rather it's something like denial of pregnancy. And that infanticide laws were enacted before women had access to contraception. Such provisions were to make allowances when it was more of a social stigma to be an unwed mother and it meant poverty and disgrace. Prior to easy access to options such as fostering and adopting the child out. Also enacted because women were thought to be irrational creatures who were victims of their biology. Hmmm.

    http://www.canadiancrc.com/Newspaper...w_12NOV06.aspx

  7. #27
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    At first I was unsure of what to think. Upon reading the post from @violaine I agreed there seems to be some premeditation with hiding the pregnancy. The fact that the court imposed a lower sentence rather than finding her not guilty due to mental defect (unsure about Canadian laws on this issue) seems to indicate that the whatever psychiatric problem this girl had, it did not totally excuse her actions.

    And she was found guilty of infanticide... which gets you a suspended sentence? That seems a bit light as well.

    Either find her not guilty or impose a harsher sentence, IMSO. The appeals court seemed to try and split the metaphorical baby in two. PUN INTENDED!

  8. #28
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Falcarius agrees pure_mercury about first conviction being right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    ...

    In terms of how this is being dealt with, I cant see this individual being rehabilitated, which means that they are likely to spend the rest of their natural days incarcerated for treatment. From the cases of insanity pleading I'm familiar with, in the UK and US, from studying criminology at uni and just being interested I know that most killers or criminals with rationales try very hard to avoid submitting claims that they are mad or in need of treatment because these submissions are likely to result in sentencing which is indefinite. Most of them prefer to try and be given a term, even if it is a lengthy one, with the prospect of release.

    I dont know which state it is in the US but there is one which has a massive, no doubt costly also, facility, the place is like a walled city, in which peadophiles and sex offenders are incarcerated for treatment, no one gets released from there, no one, as a consequence most offenders spend their time in legal action attempting to have their offences recategorised and get themselves sent to another prison. The means by which they judged peoples capacities for parole and other reviews, which they have to do, same as in the UK no one is held indefinitely without review, are so tight that there's no prospect of release.
    @Lark, that is not how it works in the UK. If one gets an indefinite sentence they would probably not spent much more than a decade or so inside at most, certainly much less than if they had a fixed period: so why not plead the insanity card if one can?

    Falcarius personally knows an ex-Broadmoor Hospital patient whose life's ambition was to become a the perfect serial killer, and whose indefinite sentence for a double murder amounted to only seven-and-a-half years.

    P.S Those ''walled cities'' are more hospital like not prisons as such.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  9. #29
    morose bourgeoisie
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    I'm torn about this. Fact: the baby was a viable, separate human being, who was murdered. His rights should not be mitigated based on age, IMO.
    So I'm shocked at the Canadian court's easy dismissal of him. I don't know how infanticide differs from murder in Canada, but I don't believe that it should be distinct in most cases. Also who was the father, and what rights did he have in the matter? None, it appears...
    Which leads me to wonder if the child was the product of incest.

  10. #30
    violaine
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    They need baby havens and hatches in Canada with a law like this on the books. To facilitate the anonymous dropping off of an infant. I'm very surprised that that's not already the case.

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