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  1. #21
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Here is an internet poll on who won the debate:
    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...reagan-library
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  2. #22
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Here is an internet poll on who won the debate:
    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...reagan-library
    Noooooo.....! How could Michelle and Rick have perfect victory snatched out of their grubby little hands by this obviously unfair online poll? Alas!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #23
    meinmeinmein! mmhmm's Avatar
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    i wish i was in iowa a few weeks ago.
    i'd vote for pArry.
    every normal man must be tempted, at times,
    to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
    and begin slitting throats.
    h.l. mencken

  4. #24
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    Ron Paul's winning that poll with a randslide
    179,283 votes and counting, and he's secured 54.4%

  5. #25
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    Peary seems like another "George Bush Jr" dumb Texan Governor
    Swing and a miss Spamtar.

    Rick Perry, The Anti-Bush Texan
    http://www.frumforum.com/rick-perry-the-anti-bush-texan

    FrumForum’s contributors have been asked to provide their thoughts about Texas Governor Rick Perry’s candidacy and what it might mean for the GOP. Regardless of one’s political stance, one can see a difference between Rick Perry and former President George W. Bush with respect to how they portray themselves as candidates.

    George W. Bush famously ran on a political program called compassionate conservatism. While I disagreed with a lot of President Bush’s policies, I don’t think that “compassionate conservative” was just a slogan. George W. Bush struck me (and still strikes me) as an empathetic person. At the very least he is someone who wanted his public image to reflect that sort of persona.

    Rick Perry doesn’t strike me as someone who wants to appear particularly empathetic. I’m not saying that Rick Perry is someone who is uncaring towards others. I don’t know the man and I can’t comment on what his inner life is like. However, I think the public persona he presents is not that of someone who wants to make sure that “when someone is hurting, government has got to move“.

    Perry has distanced himself from such views and has stated in his book Fed Up! that the “branding of compassionate conservatism meant that the GOP was sending the wrong signal, that conservatism alone wasn’t sufficient or worse yet, was somehow flawed and had to be re-branded”.

    This has real implications for the campaign. Bush’s compassionate conservatism brought in many voters who might otherwise have been skeptical of voting for a GOP presidential candidate and this message seemed to resonate in a period of general peace and prosperity. Perry’s tone may be the right one for this era, this may not be a time in which compassion sells. It is possible that Rick Perry is the right messenger for an age of austerity.

    Time will tell. While GOP primary voters may want someone who isn’t interested in putting a caveat on their conservatism, independent voters may feel otherwise.

    In any case, I don’t think anyone should expect that if Rick Perry becomes the Republican nominee for President, his tenor and message will mirror that of George W. Bush just because they both were Republican Governors from Texas. The times are different and more importantly the cast of characters is different. George W. Bush did not want to come off like a hard man on the campaign trail. It looks to me like that’s exactly how Rick Perry wants to be portrayed.
    I wanted to nip that comparison (one which many of you seem to be making) in the bud.

    Here is an internet poll on who won the debate:
    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news...reagan-library
    I hate to rag on the same person twice (spam), but Ron Paul didn't even look like he deserved to be on the stage with them last night. He came off as a strange, done little man. I'll believe an MSNBC poll on who won a GOP debate about as soon as I'll let a blind man describe the color red to me.

    Now on to who won and who lost. I'm going to start by posting some (brief articles that I agree with). I'm also watching the Jobs speech live, so a full response may take me a bit.

    Perry: Unprepared, Underwhelming
    http://www.frumforum.com/perry-unprepared-underwhelming

    The revelation from the Republican presidential debate: Rick Perry and his team utterly failed to prepare answers to utterly predictable questions on “military adventurism” and Social Security. Worse than that, Perry’s Social Security answer delivered President Obama the perfect clip for a 2012 negative ad: Rick Perry in his too-new suit and too-shiny tie denouncing Social Security as a Ponzi scheme. If Perry wins the nomination, expect to see that moment reiterated in as many TV ads as $1 billion in presidential campaign funds can buy.

    Just speaking personally, I was shocked and surprised at how unprofessional Perry’s debate performance was. Nervous, irritable, stuttering, floundering, he missed opportunity after opportunity.

    Rather than deny that he “struggled” with death penalties, why not say, “I pray over each and every one of these momentous decisions”?

    How could a Texas governor be unready to talk about immigration?

    And could Perry have invented a more stupid answer to the (eminently predictable) question about Texas ranking last among the 50 states in health insurance coverage? Perry blamed the rigidity of federal regulations – as if states 1-49 don’t share the same federal government as Texas.

    Republican primary voters have in the past shown themselves very tolerant of candidates with less than perfect mastery of the facts. But those other candidates had something else going for them, even Sarah Palin. What did Perry have?

    As the economic news gets worse, Republicans will realize: they are not merely choosing a nominee. They very well may be choosing the next president of the United States. What confidence can anybody have that Perry will come to work as president any better prepared than how he come to this debate or that he’ll show more insight and intelligence than he did in this first national outing ? Not much.
    Analysis: Who Won the Republican Presidential Debate?
    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ential-debate/

    The organizers of Wednesday night’s debate did their best to turn the eight person debate into one that was really about two people: Perry and Romney.

    And, in that match-up, Romney came out the winner. He was confident and solid throughout the entirety of the debate, a benefit of being a two-time presidential candidate. He stuck to his strong points – economy and jobs – deftly sidestepped his weakness – healthcare – and took advantage of stumbles made by his main opponent Rick Perry.

    Perry’s first outing on the GOP debate stage was decent, but inconsistent. He was like a boxer who comes out strong for the first two rounds, but then runs out of stamina by the later rounds.

    His attacks on Romney’s record of job creation in Massachusetts during the first few minutes of the debate were sharp and crisp.

    But, when it came to defending his own statements on Social Security and climate change later in the debate he floundered.

    Two candidates who struggled in last month’s debate in Iowa – Jon Huntsman and Herman Cain – were more polished and poised in this one. Still, Huntsman’s message of moderation and his emphasis on electability is going to do little to improve his standing among the GOP base.

    Michele Bachmann, the surprise “winner” of the first GOP debate in South Carolina earlier this year, was solid but lacked the sizzle of previous debates. Instead of attacking Perry – the guy who is the biggest threat to her candidacy – she stuck to her well-worn talking points.

    This debate is the first of three over the next two weeks which means these eight candidates will have plenty of opportunities to improve – or falter.
    More coming...

  6. #26
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    The Mother of all Unforced Errors
    http://www.frumforum.com/the-mother-...nforced-errors

    During the September 7th Republican Presidential debate, Gov. Rick Perry of Texas repeated an earlier assertion of his that Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme. Read that again: in the age of Bernie Madoff, Rick Perry called Social Security a Ponzi Scheme.

    When the GOP nominating season was getting started a few months back, I told everyone that Newt Gingrich was a strong contender for the nomination – and was frequently jeered for it.

    Now that Newt’s campaign has imploded, perhaps I deserved to be jeered, but I think I was right in the reason I gave for (what I believed to be) Gingrich’s strong odds: I could tell from his messaging he understood that in order to win the Republican Presidential nomination in 2012, that he would have to win two very different elections and win over two vastly different electorates.

    Perhaps not since George McGovern’s annihilation at the hands of Richard Nixon in 1972 has a candidate’s Primary base been so alienated from the center of American political thought as the Tea Party is today. Make no mistake: no candidate who doesn’t convincingly throw the red meat to the Tea Party audiences will have a sliver of a chance of getting nominated.

    That probably rules out Romney and Huntsman. Newt and Cain will run out of money. Ron Paul is Ron Paul. That leaves Perry and Bachmann, either of whom should negotiate the Tea hurdle with ease. Bachmann has no resume outside of her incredibly ironic former career as an IRS attorney, so Republicans will probably eventually close ranks behind Governor Perry.

    I’m not going to go so far as to predict the result of a Presidential Election that is 14 months away, but I will posit that while “Change we can Believe in” might be a somewhat tired slogan by that point, it sure as hell beats “Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme”.
    Newt Gingrich gets angry
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/62917.html

    Newt Gingrich's man-against-the-media routine worked in the last debate at Ames, Iowa, and he tries it again as Brian Williams and John Harris push for answers on Romneycare, Obamacare and individual mandates.

    "You'd like to puff this up into some giant thing!" Gingrich said angrily, garnering applause as he called for the GOP hopefuls to unite against the press because "whoever the nominee is, we are all for defeating Barack Obama."
    While Newt made good points against the media, he mostly answered questions that weren't asked, and ended up looking more like a statesman with good talking points than a candidate with well defined policy stances.

  7. #27
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    "Social Security is a Ponzi scheme" is probably the BEST contribution Perry will make to this process. It is, in structure.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #28
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    OK...

    Now for my take on it.

    Perry:
    He opened strong and got a few good hits in on Romney. He has a definite presence and I can see how people like him (though don't agree with this decision). As the debate went on it became more and more apparent that Perry was out of his depth as far as policy points are concerned. As one FrumForum Commenter aptly put is: "It's as if Perry was a high school jock that wandered into debate team practice..." For me, the most telling moment for Perry was his inability to respond in any articulate fashion to a question on immigration. A question which, with him being the Tx governor, should be easy homerun material. Then there was his description of Soc. Sec. as a Ponzi scheme. All in all in my mind, his performance was not impressive.

    Now, the problem with my points, is that they are likely to be overlooked (or over the heads of) those likely to vote in a GOP primary. For this group, hammering home on his record on executions (to thunderous applause), ignoring policy centered questions to reiterate ideological platitudes, and likening entitlement programs to a pyramid scheme likely earned him points. More important than any of this, Perry has a powerful and charismatic presence. A fact that he made clear at the beginning of the debate, where his juxtaposition to more cerebral candidates like Huntsman, Romney and Santorum easily differentiated him from the pack.

    Now the good news... (and my final take aways)
    Perry's positive points from the debate (mentioned above) are aimed at a group of voters (far right red staters) that already support him strongly. There isn't that much more support he can gain from this group. He likely hurt himself among more the more moderate parts of the party. Ultimately, I think he harmed himself tonight, and would not be surprised if his numbers dropped a little relative to Romney. The amount of time spent on him, and number of questions sent is way however, marked him as the clear favorite going in. Also the number of articles that focus on him in the aftermath of the debate seem to confirm this point. Despite his performance, there is no bad publicity, and he seeems to have the lion share of it at the moment.

    Final word: He hurt himself, but not as much as many would like.

  9. #29
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Thanks for putting these clippings together.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post


    I wanted to nip that comparison (one which many of you seem to be making) in the bud.
    Yes, bush ran on compassionate conservativism in 2000, but all that changed on sept. 11. After two wars bush will not be remembered as a compassionate conservative. Maybe, the comparison is a bit off, but only because even in prosperous and peaceful times it's hard to imagine perry being compassionate in any sense (he gave near to nothing to charity the year his book made him a million dollars).
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  10. #30
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Thanks for putting these clippings together.



    Yes, bush ran on compassionate conservativism in 2000, but all that changed on sept. 11. After two wars bush will not be remembered as a compassionate conservative. Maybe, the comparison is a bit off, but only because even in prosperous and peaceful times it's hard to imagine perry being compassionate in any sense (he gave near to nothing to charity the year his book made him a million dollars).
    He was still a compassionate conservative. You just had to realize that "compassionate" always meant "big spending."
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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