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  1. #51
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    it's as you say. I have no obligation to anyone except myself
    Good luck with that and I hope you have a long, long life to think about it.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Socialist are especially good at this, they're all about interventionism and but they can't anticipate the consequences of their intervention.

    However, in this case, the consequences exist in your imagination only.
    Really? Shows what you know about socialism. Anyway. Wasted enough time on this bullshit.

  3. #53
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont live in a country were there has been a draft, Northern Ireland being exempt for political reasons and I'm pretty sure Ireland was exempt too prior to partition and the independence of ROI but I cant help but think that a lot of the resistance, particularly among the capitalist radical youth in the US, is not conscientious objection for the most part but shirking obligations, of any description, towards anyone else.
    At least during WWI, the Irish were certainly conscripted into the British Army as far as I know.

    You are certainly correct about the main objection to the draft among "radical youths" of America, and Elfboy was more than happy to confirm this.

  4. #54
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    At least during WWI, the Irish were certainly conscripted into the British Army as far as I know.

    You are certainly correct about the main objection to the draft among "radical youths" of America, and Elfboy was more than happy to confirm this.
    all except the "radical" part. is it radical to value your own life more than your country's welfare?
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  5. #55
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    all except the "radical" part. is it radical to value your own life more than your country's welfare?
    I think we should ask Vichy France.

  6. #56
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    is it radical to value your own life more than your country's welfare?
    No, certainly not in the original definition of the word "radical", nor even in the common stereotype(since they often advocated for universal military service, which is the origins of modern conscription). It's usually a luxury self-indulgent affluent kids engage in because they can afford to. The old saying was back when there was a draft was that such kids could by themselves out of military service(this was certainly true at least in the Civil War and Vietnam).

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    No, certainly not in the original definition of the word "radical", nor even in the common stereotype(since they often advocated for universal military service, which is the origins of modern conscription). It's usually a luxury self-indulgent affluent kids engage in because they can afford to. The old saying was back when there was a draft was that such kids could by themselves out of military service(this was certainly true at least in the Civil War and Vietnam).
    Yeah, I remember a good history of the Paris Commune describing how contra most modern socialists or subversives the communards wherent anti-militarist but positively militarist agitating for a total war with Prussia and pinning their hopes on a complete victory or a complete destruction.

  8. #58
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, I remember a good history of the Paris Commune describing how contra most modern socialists or subversives the communards wherent anti-militarist but positively militarist agitating for a total war with Prussia and pinning their hopes on a complete victory or a complete destruction.
    That's true as well, although the Levée en Masse during the French Revolution was the first known example of mass conscription we have. It's official decree begins with:
    From this moment until that in which the enemy shall have been driven from the soil of the Republic, all Frenchmen are in permanent requisition for the service of the armies. The young men shall go to battle; the married men shall forge arms and transport provisions; the women shall make tents and clothing and shall serve in the hospitals; the children shall turn old linen into lint; the aged shall betake themselves to the public places in order to arouse the courage of the warriors and preach the hatred of kings and the unity of the Republic.

  9. #59
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    There is approximately one handgun for every human being in the United States and a standing volunteer corps of armed forces at over 1.5 million. If a nation like that needs a draft in order to defend itself, it DESERVES to be overrun from the outside.
    This is retarded. Armies don't just use handguns to fight; they use bombs. The "deserves" to be overrun is rhetorical rather than a common sense argument, so yeah.

  10. #60
    Sniffles
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    Not to mention those armed citizens would have to be reasonably organized to truely be effective even in irregular tactics against an invading force. Random acts of violence by private citizens would be more an annoyance than a deep thorn in their side.

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