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  1. #41
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Please tell me you are joking?

    Are you familiar with the concept of 'acquaintance rape'?

    Also, just remember the rapist is telling the story.

    Um...you seriously think a woman has to tell her rapist, "Dood, you just raped me," to make it legit?
    I'm thinking in terms of how it is being considered a crime in the eyes of the law. And I'm going by the experiences of women I know who have unsuccessfully fought for prosecution as victims of a sex crime, or what they saw as a sex crime. There have been psychologically coercive rapes that have been completely dismissed by police before it ever got to the courts.

    Acquaintance or date rape can consist of any level of force. The difference between "date rape" and "rape" is simply that it was someone she was acquainted with or went out on a date with. But since it doesn't require physical struggle and threat of a weapon (knife, fists, gun), the status of the coercion is being reduced to the psychological level.

    The question becomes, "How did he make you do it, if there was no threat of physical violence or any actual violence involved?"

    I submit that there are men willing and capable of using psychological coercion very effectively to get what they want. I have known a few in my time. However, whether or not to call that rape is for others to decide, and not for me.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  2. #42
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I'm trying to understand how or why this would occur...
    You'd be surprised how often women will allow sex to happen "to" them. They might not resist or say no (hence it not being rape or assault), but not enthusiastically want the sex, regret the whole incident later, and even feel violated.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #43
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    You'd be surprised how often women will allow sex to happen "to" them. They might not resist or say no (hence it not being rape or assault), but not enthusiastically want the sex, regret the whole incident later, and even feel violated.
    Well, depending on how the particular jurisdiction conceptualizes "consent," direct expressions on the part of the would-be victim might not be necessary to convict the other person. The courts may, for instance, take a more attitudinal view of consent.

    In the situation you describe, however, the sex-initiator would not be guilty because it could (most likely, assuming he was in fact acting innocently) not be demonstrated that he disregarded, was indifferent to, or otherwise knowingly (in callousness or hatred) violated the woman's sexual autonomy.

    I wonder what is the number of incidences of that sort of behavior on the part of the woman? Because it strikes me intuitively as something that would be fairly rare (more rare even then deliberate lying on the part of the woman for purposes of vengeance.)
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  4. #44
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Well, depending on how the particular jurisdiction conceptualizes "consent," direct expressions on the part of the would-be victim might not be necessary to convict the other person. The courts may, for instance, take a more attitudinal view of consent.
    Usually, lack of consent entails voicing objection, physical resistance, intoxication (forced or voluntary), threat of force/coercion, etc. There are conditions involved to protect the innocent here. Certainly, rape does not occur every time a woman decides a sex act was a bad idea after the fact.


    In the situation you describe, however, the sex-initiator would not be guilty because it could (most likely, assuming he was in fact acting innocently) not be demonstrated that he disregarded, was indifferent to, or otherwise knowingly (in callousness or hatred) violated the woman's sexual autonomy.
    Pretty much. You have to have the mens rea, as always. Although there is an ethical onus on the sex-initiator to gain consent before the act. The sad part is, that doesn't completely cover one's ass, because it can and does come down to "he said, she said" sometimes. Or " he said, he said" or "she said, she said." The rates of rape and sexual assault in the LGBT community (by partners, acquaintances, or strangers) is appalling.

    I wonder what is the number of incidences of that sort of behavior on the part of the woman? Because it strikes me intuitively as something that would be fairly rare (more rare even then deliberate lying on the part of the woman for purposes of vengeance.)[/QUOTE]
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #45
    Senior Member Sanctus Iacobus's Avatar
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    Based on the evidence available here, which is the "comedians" witness of the events, the event described wouldn't be classified as rape by law. There could easily be a follow-up investigation with the woman that proves otherwise, though.

  6. #46
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    It sounds extremely creepy; however, I'm not entirely convinced it was rape (though I'm leaning toward that), since if he did rape her, he would have done it in the bathroom, not taken her to the bedroom. I've had situations where a girl said no, then changed her mind later on.

    It still could be rape, though, since, a) he didn't tell the story bridging the gap between her saying no, and them having sex (which I would think would be the most interesting part) and b) if it was a veiled rape confession, he would naturally want to lie about his deed, and saying that they had sex in the bathroom after she said no is basically saying that he raped her.

  7. #47
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Whether legally or not "Eric" committed rape; he is an unscrupulous bastard, and I would like to have a wordless conversation with him for a few minutes in an area where there are no witnesses, you know, so our conversation can be conisdered consensual.

    Fucking creep.

    I hope Eric gets raped by a 6'5" 285 pound man, who tells him "I'm the one who showed up."



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  8. #48
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    You'd be surprised how often women will allow sex to happen "to" them. They might not resist or say no (hence it not being rape or assault), but not enthusiastically want the sex, regret the whole incident later, and even feel violated.
    Wow, is this what you learn as guy being EXFX? I'm guessing you have had a lot of female friends? This is a concept that totally goes beyond a lot of men due to 'rape culture' which is what we live in.

    And @mal12345 yes, I know what date/acquaintance rape entails I just wanted to see what your own definition of rape was and if you could delineate shades of gray in the equation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Whether legally or not "Eric" committed rape; he is an unscrupulous bastard, and I would like to have a wordless conversation with him for a few minutes in an area where there are no witnesses, you know, so our conversation can be conisdered consensual.

    Fucking creep.

    I hope Eric gets raped by a 6'5" 285 pound man, who tells him "I'm the one who showed up."



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  9. #49
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    No! Two rapes makes more rape!

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Wow, that's fucked up. It's obvious he doesn't think he did anything wrong, unless it's in a "You dawg!" rascally sense. I'm trying to wrap my head around what he thinks happened that makes him so obviously proud of the story. Persistence in the face of a level of rejection which would crush lesser men? Saying and doing all the right things to turn a hopeless situation into a victory? Being such a player that he can even have sex with a woman who doesn't want to have sex with him? Going about everything in exactly the wrong way yet still scoring?
    This sort of narcissistic bullshit, both acting that way and then retelling it that way, is becoming hopelessly widespread. Its the microcosm of the libertarian macrocosm which ways you really dont owe anything to anyone and you're just wonderful so long as you know it and believe it.

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