User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 24

  1. #1
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    853 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,983

    Default Microsoft vs. Apple

    I got into a debate this morning about which company was more valuable from a business perspective. Which one would you chose? What criteria did you use, and why do you think it's the best indicator?
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  2. #2
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    8,193

    Default

    From a "business perspective" Microsoft WAS, and now Apple IS. MS's market cap was like, 600 billion dollars before the .com bust and now Apple's market cap is higher than MS's at 360 billion or so. Microsoft's fall from grace is rather impressive and it only took 10 years and Steve Ballmer. Or I should say, a lack of Bill Gates. The guy did in his head what they need a committee to do now.

    I'm a finance guy, so I just use market capitalization as the indicator of a company's "worth" but even a casual observer can tell you that Apple is a leader in shaping the market at this point while MS just keeps up, tags along, and updates its own entrenched services at its own pace.



  3. #3
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,859

    Default

    rex,
    I think it depends on the size of the business. Bigger is more likely to use MS since it's cheaper per unit. Apple is more niche.

  4. #4
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,486

    Default

    What are you doing here? Graphic Design? Running public facing servers? Developing software?

  5. #5
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    853 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,983

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    From a "business perspective" Microsoft WAS, and now Apple IS. MS's market cap was like, 600 billion dollars before the .com bust and now Apple's market cap is higher than MS's at 360 billion or so. Microsoft's fall from grace is rather impressive and it only took 10 years and Steve Ballmer. Or I should say, a lack of Bill Gates. The guy did in his head what they need a committee to do now.
    This was essentially the argument that I made. I mean if you look at any metric derived from share value, Apple wins. The person I was arguing against said this was a moot point given the continuing ubiquity of Microsoft's products especially among commercial/enterprise-level consumers. By dent of the effective Window's software monopoly, Microsoft remains the most powerful and influential company in tech, and thus the most valuable.

    I responded that Apple's strategy since Job's was reinstated was to focus on developing products for a high-end niche market; they never intended to sell to the masses. Besides, Apple wasn't a software company, and the areas where they had competed directly with Microsoft (smartphones, MP3 Players) they'd won by a large margin.

    I was told that if Apple could have their products as widely used as Microsoft does, they would. The reason they developed the strategy they had was because they could never take on the hold of Window-based systems directly. They basically survived in the form and at the pleasure of Bill Gates, because Microsoft needed a competitor to point to during their anti-trust suits. The person said that if I couldn't follow that, then I knew nothing about business.

    I told them that those kinds of things are reflected in share prices, in addition to the perception of the companies future value and growth potential. Microsoft was a dying giant. And if he couldn't follow that he didn't know dick about how the market worked. Meanwhile, Yahoo Finance shows that Apple outpaces Microsoft in total revenue, even though Microsoft has an edge in gross profit and EBITDA.

    Anyway, I summarized the argument a bit further to bring up the point that bothers me: is the value of a company strictly a numbers game, or are intangibles like brand and influence ultimately worth more?
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  6. #6
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    8,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-up Rex View Post
    This was essentially the argument that I made. I mean if you look at any metric derived from share value, Apple wins. The person I was arguing against said this was a moot point given the continuing ubiquity of Microsoft's products especially among commercial/enterprise-level consumers. By dent of the effective Window's software monopoly, Microsoft remains the most powerful and influential company in tech, and thus the most valuable
    In a way. I would say that MS's importance is largely historical at this point and any "power" they currently hold is due to that past and not what they've done in the last 10 years or so.

    I responded that Apple's strategy since Job's was reinstated was to focus on developing products for a high-end niche market; they never intended to sell to the masses. Besides, Apple wasn't a software company, and the areas where they had competed directly with Microsoft (smartphones, MP3 Players) they'd won by a large margin.
    I would say that Apple is a software company, but this is mostly correct. Different business models.

    I was told that if Apple could have their products as widely used as Microsoft does, they would. The reason they developed the strategy they had was because they could never take on the hold of Window-based systems directly. They basically survived in the form and at the pleasure of Bill Gates, because Microsoft needed a competitor to point to during their anti-trust suits. The person said that if I couldn't follow that, then I knew nothing about business.
    Bill Gates actually did throw Apple a lifeboat and kept them afloat, however I'd argue that Apple's philosophy in terms of design and function of computers didnt suit the market at the time. Stevie was obsessive at times with regards to form over function, that Microsoft's strategy of creating a box that could run anything that needed to be run on it made sense in an emerging computer market. These arguments are all about the past though, and mean very little currently.

    I told them that those kinds of things are reflected in share prices, in addition to the perception of the companies future value and growth potential. Microsoft was a dying giant. And if he couldn't follow that he didn't know dick about how the market worked. Meanwhile, Yahoo Finance shows that Apple outpaces Microsoft in total revenue, even though Microsoft has an edge in gross profit and EBITDA.

    Anyway, I summarized the argument a bit further to bring up the point that bothers me: is the value of a company strictly a numbers game, or are intangibles like brand and influence ultimately worth more?
    I think in a way it's a combination, but if you're going to bring brand loyalty into the already solid picture for Apple, then MS is going to lose because there's not a brand on earth that can rival the zealotry of the Mac fanbase. While I'm using market cap, I'm also figuring in prospects for growth and what the landscape looks like going forward. MS tends to only play in markets it already owns or flail about in markets that it doesn't. They're 2 years behind the markets with the most growth [smartphones/tablets, cloud services] and essentially missed the MP3 player generation. Apple has a more attractive strategy and recent track record of creating new markets for products out of thin air. The only thing MS has had success with recently is the Xbox, and they got rid of the people responsible for it over the years

    Graphs and pure numbers help, but I'm always a believer in context and the "flow" to a company so to speak. But it's mostly numbers



  7. #7
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    ISTx
    Posts
    10,552

    Default

    Microsoft.

  8. #8
    Yup
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    Istj
    Posts
    1,517

    Default

    I think apples just had a change in ceo, someone stepped down. a new person stepped up, good thing? or bad thing?

  9. #9
    A window to the soul
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-up Rex View Post
    Which one would you chose?
    Microsoft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-up Rex View Post
    What criteria did you use
    Options. Capabilities.

  10. #10
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    853 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,983

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yakimadude View Post
    I think apples just had a change in ceo, someone stepped down. a new person stepped up, good thing? or bad thing?
    An Apple without a Jobs, is a very sad Apple.

    I think it might have an impact in the long-run. For now though, Jobs left a 3-year plan for the company to follow, and I'm sure he'll be an active consultant while he's still able.
    Last edited by Wind Up Rex; 09-03-2011 at 01:04 AM.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

Similar Threads

  1. Apples vs. Oranges
    By Such Irony in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 04-15-2012, 09:35 AM
  2. MBTI vs the MBTI Step II test
    By Totenkindly in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 05-31-2008, 09:25 PM
  3. Faith vs Faithfulness
    By Totenkindly in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 11-01-2007, 07:10 AM
  4. Does SJ vs SP account for gender bias?
    By Tayshaun in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-17-2007, 08:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO