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  1. #21
    Ginkgo
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    Honestly, it's an interesting question because if you answer "people", you're making a value judgement. If there was ever an argument, it was won before it began.

  2. #22
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  3. #23
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    From a purely personal standpoint, I have to say I agree with the statement. Without values, people and yourself are a direct threat. Therefore, values are needed in order to protect you from the people, and from yourself.
    Another point would be that people can exist (barely) without values, but values cannot exist without people. So, in a bigger picture, people are more important than values, to overall survival.
    Of course, in any sense, values are more important than things, in the bigger picture.

    On a case-by-case basis and assuming environments, situations, etc., I think it just depends.
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  4. #24
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    On a case-by-case basis and assuming environments, situations, etc., I think it just depends.
    LOL
    I think our conclusions would be a little less vague if the original question was more specific...

  5. #25
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catbert View Post
    LOL
    I think our conclusions would be a little less vague if the original question was more specific...
    Less vague as in less conclusions?

    You guys really dont like discussion do you? What brings you to a discussion forum today? The closed answer threads? A real hoot I'm imagine they are.

  6. #26
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    I would agree that values can be more important than things, but saying they're more important than people disturbs me, and reminds me of the whole organized religion mentality of actually fucking dying for your religion or putting your beliefs over the lives of other human beings, which is why I think it's sick, and why I think some atheists are actually nicer human beings than some Christians or Muslims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Perhaps, I think that implicit in the question is what you would consider sacrificing, so it is a matter of would you sacrifice things or people to preserve your values, or would you sacrifice people and values to things or would you sacrifice things and values to people? And why?
    Okay to address what you're apparently getting at (my first response was to the OP, which is extremely vague) ...there has to be a balance. Things are important. We live in the physical world and we need physical things. We also need other people. I think to deny this aspect of the human experience is ascetic which is something I can't and won't understand. I will not be a brain in a jar, or pretend to be a spirit when I'm actually a human. I can't see being SO intellectual or SO spiritual that you deny your body.

    On the flip side, I think valuing things and the physical world over any and all intellectualism or spirituality is just as bad, and that it's stupid, and will only have bad long term consequences.

    I believe in a balance of the two things. I think that's the healthiest way to approach life and any culture.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I would agree that values can be more important than things, but saying they're more important than people disturbs me, and reminds me of the whole organized religion mentality of actually fucking dying for your religion or putting your beliefs over the lives of other human beings, which is why I think it's sick, and why I think some atheists are actually nicer human beings than some Christians or Muslims.
    Yeah, not knowing the meaing of sacrifice is probably what qualifies you as a nicer human being these days right enough.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Just out of interest, would anyone who's concerned about the vague nature of the OP want to suggest their own reframing of it? You know just interesting in how many of you would light a candle or if the preference is simply for cursing the darkness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, not knowing the meaing of sacrifice is probably what qualifies you as a nicer human being these days right enough.
    No I think caring about human beings and human life is sensible and kind, where as murdering innocents for your "belief system" or ending your life over some bullshit is crazy. CRAZY.

    You can make sacrifices to help other people, or to grow and mature, but no, I don't think sacrificing your life or other people's lives is even sane, and I definitely think it's pretty self absorbed. It's like valuing a fucking idea more than life itself.

    Life itself trumps ideas. Ideas must correlate to preserving and bettering life, and if they don't, they're too abstract and therefore useless.

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