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  1. #11
    Senior Member Mae's Avatar
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    Rick Perry is a creep. Abstinence-only programs are crap. What we should do is scare the shit out of these kids about the consequences of unprotected sex and provide free methods of birth control.
    I got my smile from the sunshine,
    I got my tears from the rain.
    I learned to dance when I saw a tiger prance,
    And a peacock taught me to be vain.
    A little owl in a tree so high,
    He taught me how to wink my eye.
    I learned to bill and coo from a turtledove,
    And a grizzly bear taught me how to hug.
    But the guy that lived two caves from me,
    He taught me how to love.

  2. #12
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    Not even then. People who want to fuck, will fuck. Excuse me for being crude.
    Just ask Bristol Palin!

    Consider coffee, illegal drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and obesity from caloric overconsumption. Since when are people capable of 100% abstaining from anything that feels good?

  3. #13
    Senior Member jimrckhnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Just ask Bristol Palin!
    Ouch. Well played.
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

  4. #14
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimrckhnd View Post
    Ouch. Well played.
    Kind of unfair usage but she's symbolic of all that's wrong with trying to preach abstinence to hormone raging teenagers. All guilt and shame methodologies do, is to emotionally mess people up.

  5. #15
    Senior Member jimrckhnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Kind of unfair usage but she's symbolic of all that's wrong with trying to preach abstinence to hormone raging teenagers. All guilt and shame methodologies do, is to emotionally mess people up.
    I'm not sure its unfair - she is, by her mother's and her own choice, a public figure. As such - fair game IMO.

    I agree that shaming people over very natural feelings is both practically not productive and emotionally damaging. I'm a firm believer in getting to know your "dark side" - the more you know, the less you are suprised and the more you realize that you aren't unique or alone. I think back on my catholic upbringing and teachings and all I can do now is laugh. But then I stopped taking them seriously pretty early on - so maybe I can afford to laugh. Imagine being tormented by guilt over masturbation or pre-marital sex for you entire life. That is pretty corrosive stuff. The irony is that it punishes the faithful while providing people like myself punch lines and fodder for humorous stories.
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

  6. #16
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimrckhnd View Post
    I'm not sure its unfair - she is, by her mother's and her own choice, a public figure. As such - fair game IMO.
    I agree 100% It was BS that the media was so in the pocket of Republicans that they backed off this one. It merely highlighted what a hypocrite and failure Sarah Palin was regarding her own poorly grasped ideas about parenting and governance. The media also backed off other glaring examples of her failures.

    Also funny - homophobic conservative lawmakers with lesbians for daughters. Why is this so common???

    Public shaming? Since when are teenaged parents shamed? Yes, it's looked at as an 'unideal thing' but it's SO COMMON. Especially moreso in certain communities than others. So the idea that there is a stigma about it is not only changing, it's normalized in some places in the states, and that shame is fading as it becomes somewhat sensationalized/romanticized. There's even ABC shows about teenaged pregnancies.

    Public shame about teen/out of wedlock pregnancy btw doesn't work in the states. If we lived in a much more culturally homogeneous or tight-knit culture or that had religious governance then maybe.

    Yeah, American teenagers are purposely left in the dark about their bodies, sexuality, and consequences. Education is the antidote to teenage pregnancy and STDs/STIs, not willful ignorance. I'm not that surprised hearing @Jennifer's story, from the documentaries I've watched and painful episodes of '16 and Pregnant' yeah that seems typical.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimrckhnd View Post
    I'm not sure its unfair - she is, by her mother's and her own choice, a public figure. As such - fair game IMO.
    Yes, and she made the choice to put herself out there as well, so...

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Public shaming? Since when are teenaged parents shamed? Yes, it's looked at as an 'unideal thing' but it's SO COMMON. Especially moreso in certain communities than others. So the idea that there is a stigma about it is not only changing, it's normalized in some places in the states
    Well, the fact it is no longer as shamed (as well as divorce no longer being shamed) is considered a BAD thing in some of the conservative religious cultures because there is no longer any deterrent (in their view) to not doing it.

    Yeah, American teenagers are purposely left in the dark about their bodies, sexuality, and consequences. Education is the antidote to teenage pregnancy and STDs/STIs, not willful ignorance. I'm not that surprised hearing Jennifer's story, from the documentaries I've watched and painful episodes of '16 and Pregnant' yeah that seems typical.
    Yes, well, I'll try to remedy that as I can for my own kids. I'm just kind of surprised they never looked things up on the 'net, at a bare minimum. They're both pretty wired in.

    My own parents never explained a thing to me about sex. Nothing at all. Anything I figured out (and I did figure a lot out at the time), I figured out on my own from the library, since I didn't have the 'net at the time and we didn't have cable either.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  8. #18
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, the fact it is no longer as shamed (as well as divorce no longer being shamed) is considered a BAD thing in some of the conservative religious cultures because there is no longer any deterrent (in their view) to not doing it.
    I actually agree with that. Normalizing 'bad behavior' is never a good thing. Scarlet letters might be taking it too far but the concept of shame in a culturally homogeneous society can do amazing things as far as modifying behavior. Or it could just drive the behavior underground into more dangerous territory.

    Yes, well, I'll try to remedy that as I can for my own kids. I'm just kind of surprised they never looked things up on the 'net, at a bare minimum. They're both pretty wired in.
    Keke, I wasn't trying to blame the parents. And I know from my own experience kids are more likely to look up porn and other sensational 'sex' related sites than any actual information. I remember my brother got in trouble for racking up $200 in phone sex bills when he was still in elementary school. I think the big failure of abstinence only is that the way that it's taught (from my understanding) is without speaking graphically and in depth about sex and just 'talking around it', it still helps sensationalize sex and make it taboo. Kids loooooooove taboo.

    I think I went to a 'high risk' public school district up till middle school, so we got pretty graphic and direct sex-ed as early as the 4th and 5th grade. Lots of anatomy worksheets and I remember trying to figure out for the first time how to spell "penis" when I saw another student put down "penus" on their sheet. I remember even at the time I was surprised we were getting such in depth sex-ed as children, not even teenagers. When I moved to a higher-ranked middle school in a 'nice neighborhood' we had NO sex ed. I was also surprised by that.

    My mom also made us watch one of those 'miracle of life' videos with kittens as well as a filmed live human birth. Lolol. I'd already seen it before on PBS so it just made me and my brother bored.

    I must have read up on anatomy and other stuff as well because I feel like I was pretty well versed and my baseline knowledge about sex, anatomy, pregnancy, STD transmission, etc. as a teenager (knowing all the 'basics') was on par with what it is now. Oh yeah, but I was an early feminist and also a peer counselor so knowing about my own body and the sexual body in general and different birth control methods and safety etc was part of my shtick.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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