User Tag List

View Poll Results: Gay marriage rights

Voters
170. You may not vote on this poll
  • Should be given

    158 92.94%
  • Should not be given

    9 5.29%
  • Could tolerate gay couples, but can't tolerate gay marriages

    9 5.29%
  • Can't tolerate gay marriages or couples

    3 1.76%
Multiple Choice Poll.
First 8485657585960 Last

Results 571 to 580 of 591

  1. #571
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle View Post
    I'm in favor of polyamorous marriage too, if its between consenting adults.
    Alas, the children can't consent.

  2. #572
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    1,492

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Alas, the children can't consent.
    Yes, so that aspect falls apart. Children are reasonably considered unprepared to vote, drink, drive, by tried as adults or even live totally without guardianship. Stands to reason they lack the ability to decide to marry. Not true of gay marriage or, indeed, polyamorous marriage.

    So what's the issue? The same arguments don't work for truly radical or harmful forms of marriage.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  3. #573
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,524
    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Yes, so that aspect falls apart. Children are reasonably considered unprepared to vote, drink, drive, by tried as adults or even live totally without guardianship. Stands to reason they lack the ability to decide to marry. Not true of gay marriage or, indeed, polyamorous marriage.

    So what's the issue? The same arguments don't work for truly radical or harmful forms of marriage.
    In most developed countries the State acts in loco parentis for children.

    For instance, the State requires all children to attend school to become literate.

    The State requires parents to enable their children to thrive.

    The State, since the last decade of the 20th century, prosecutes those who sexually abuse children.

    So the State, at least in some developed countries, speaks and acts for children.

    And however sympathetic we may be to same sex lovers and polyamourous lovers and Islamic lovers, their main concern is not thriving children.

  4. #574
    Starcrossed Seafarer Aquarelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    3,532

    Default

    The same-sex couples I know are all very committed to raising thriving children. I don't know any polyamorous families, but I imagine they have the same potential to be good (or bad) parents as a heterosexual couple.
    Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting.

    My blog:
    TypeC: Adventures of an Introvert
    Wordpress: http://introvertadventures.wordpress.com/

  5. #575
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle View Post
    The same-sex couples I know are all very committed to raising thriving children. I don't know any polyamorous families, but I imagine they have the same potential to be good (or bad) parents as a heterosexual couple.
    Yes, I know of same sex couples doing a good job of raising children. But this remains anecdotal until we have longitudinal, cross cultural studies of the physical, mental and social health of children in same sex, polyamourous and Islamic unions.

    The State has a clear duty of due diligence on behalf of children before changing their lives.

  6. #576
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Enneagram
    9w8 so/sx
    Posts
    11,544

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The State has a clear duty of due diligence on behalf of children before changing their lives.
    Changing whose lives? A child of a same sex couple needs the state to consider due diligence on their behalf before changing their life by allowing their parents to marry? What possible argument could be raised to suggest it would not be either improved or unaffected?

    Allowing same sex marriages will not encourage those who seek opposite sex relationships to go out there and change their preference, so their children will be unaffected.

    The studies exist and all reputable independent ones show children are negatively affected by the inequality their parents have, not by the kind of relationship they are in.

  7. #577
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    What possible argument could be raised to suggest it would not be either improved or unaffected?
    It is not a question of argument, it is a question of evidence and reason.

    And it is not a question of opinion, it is still a question of evidence and reason.

    And last, it is not a question of self interest, it is still a question of evidence and reason.

    And we may well believe that in a society devoted to narcissism and illegal drugs, the universal rights of children will be neglected or ignored.

  8. #578
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,524
    We do though have some indicators of the well being of children in Islamic marriage.

    For 57 Islamic States have openly and publicly repudiated the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and in particular, repudiated the universal rights of children.

    So we have a prima facie case that Islamic Marriage does not support the rights of children.

  9. #579
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Enneagram
    9w8 so/sx
    Posts
    11,544

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It is not a question of argument, it is a question of evidence and reason.

    And it is not a question of opinion, it is still a question of evidence and reason.

    And last, it is not a question of self interest, it is still a question of evidence and reason.
    Studies exist. The question of evidence and reason has been asked many times on the topic of children of gay parents and the studies show consistantly that children are negatively affected by the inequality their parents have, not by the kind of relationship they are in.

    And of course there are children who are old enough to talk for themselves:




    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    We do though have some indicators of the well being of children in Islamic marriage.

    For 57 Islamic States have openly and publicly repudiated the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and in particular, repudiated the universal rights of children.

    So we have a prima facie case that Islamic Marriage does not support the rights of children.
    If you wish to talk on the topic of Islamic marriage or any other marriage but that of the same sex, you are most welcome but please start a new thread as it's off topic and I don't want to thread split for 1 post.

  10. #580
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    1,492

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    We do though have some indicators of the well being of children in Islamic marriage.
    I was unfamiliar with the term before, but if my understanding is correct it involves allowing people of any age to marry when they "feel ready." I don't see how this is a logical comparison as opposed to a slippery slope.

    For 57 Islamic States have openly and publicly repudiated the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and in particular, repudiated the universal rights of children.
    I get the feeling that practices like Islamic marriage, which allow some kind of predatory behavior on kids or possibly women, are kind of a symptom of lowered standards of human rights, not the cause. Even if gay marriage states tended to have lower human rights standards (I'll note that I seriously doubt one of those 57 states allows gay marriage, and in fact many probably consider all form of homosexual relations patently illegal and enforce severe punishment), you'd have to provide a more solid link. You may as well argue Hitler hated Jews on account of his love for Snow White and the Seven Dwarves (though, come to think of it, ol' Walt wasn't a big fan of Semites either).

    So we have a prima facie case that Islamic Marriage does not support the rights of children.
    It's a lovely thing no one here is (vocally) supporting Islamic marriage then.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

Similar Threads

  1. Support for Same-Sex Marriage Climbs to New High
    By Totenkindly in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 299
    Last Post: 06-26-2011, 10:43 PM
  2. Question for those who oppose same-sex marriage on religious grounds:
    By Brendan in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 111
    Last Post: 05-05-2010, 09:32 PM
  3. Same-Sex Marriage
    By metaphours in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 08-04-2009, 07:52 AM
  4. Do you think same-sex marriage should be legal?
    By ez78705 in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 257
    Last Post: 05-22-2009, 05:02 PM
  5. Christianity Today Poll (same-sex marriages)
    By Totenkindly in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: 09-14-2007, 08:53 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO