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View Poll Results: Gay marriage rights

Voters
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  • Should be given

    158 92.94%
  • Should not be given

    9 5.29%
  • Could tolerate gay couples, but can't tolerate gay marriages

    9 5.29%
  • Can't tolerate gay marriages or couples

    3 1.76%
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Results 471 to 480 of 591

  1. #471
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    1. It's gross

    2. The Bible says it's wrong.

    I think those are the only arguments I've ever heard. Come up with arguments against those (other than "oh em gee homophooob" or "Haters!!!!!") and it might actually get people listening.

    People say the same arguments constantly and can't figure out why it doesn't make a difference.

  2. #472
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Because, despite the pandering, Romney is actually a centrist.
    From what I hear and read, he is only a centrist when the winds blow from all sides at once or, perhaps, not at all. Do you think he will lay down the flip-flopping ways that brought him to the presidency once he has it? Are populists good at fulfilling promises in the face of controversy?

  3. #473
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    As much as Americans love a hit job, there's one thing they love more: a recognition of past sins, and an apology.
    True. America thrives on that kind of "redemptive tale."

    His apology was kind of lame, though. I mean, some things are negligible... but an incident like holding down someone and cutting off their hair while they are crying is actualy in a different class from just shouting something goofy across the classroom, or "stealing halloween candy," etc. It's very personal and very direct and hands-on, and demands persistence to accomplish one's goal, in direct defiance of their begging you to stop. IOW, it's rather sadistic.

    Romney also isn't very good at sounding sincere or honed in on what the issues are enough to apologize appropriately for it.

    He did make a point, though, that he might not have realized the boy was "gay"; he was just different. Maybe that's worse. Who knows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The relvant question is: Will the black voters punish him for it in states that he can actually win? That number is missing in the article. Apart from Florida, he has little to lose in the south (if we consider the votes he got in 2008 his property).
    It's up in the air. Big question with the black vote is, "Is the gay issue big enough to trump the black issue?" The gay issue might not be little, but the black issue is huge and this is the first black president. I read elsewhere that Sharpton said he came out in support of gay marriage back in 2008 or something, and none of his speeches at churches were canceled although some black parishoners disagreed with him. Of course, this is the presidency. Still....
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    From what I hear and read, he is only a centrist when the winds blow from all sides at once or, perhaps, not at all.
    Well, this is America, the wind is always blowing from all sides at once.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Do you think he will lay down the flip-flopping ways that brought him to the presidency once he has it?
    I think the flip-flopping is mostly electioneering.

    I don't really know what he'll do if he becomes President.

    I don't really think it's gunna happen, either, so I don't waste too much time on it.

    I just think that, when it comes to righting the economy, he would do a far better job.

    I don't, however, think we should pursue a policy of lowering taxes on the wealthy.

    I think to do so would be both a political and economic calamity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Are populists good at fulfilling promises in the face of controversy?
    Umm...

    I don't think populist is a fitting word for Romney.

    Frankly, Obama is more of a populist than he is.

    Santorum was the populist idiot in this race.

  5. #475
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Frankly, Obama is more of a populist than he is.

    Santorum was the populist idiot in this race.
    I saw the Republican debates. Romney seemed by far the most flexible of them, almost picking words in accordance with the clapping in the background. I don't know enough about his actual politics to say much about his real work, but the impression I got from the debates was consistent.

  6. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I saw the Republican debates. Romney seemed by far the most flexible of them, almost picking words in accordance with the clapping in the background. I don't know enough about his actual politics to say much about his real work, but the impression I got from the debates was consistent.
    Hmm...

    I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the term Populist when it comes to American politics...

    No one here would call Romney a Populist...

    Santorum, on the other hand...

    And Obama last time... (sort of)

    ETA: Or Mike Huckabee...

    ETA2: Even Michelle Bachmann...

    ETA3: And maybe even Herman Cain...

  7. #477
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    1. It's gross

    2. The Bible says it's wrong.

    I think those are the only arguments I've ever heard. Come up with arguments against those (other than "oh em gee homophooob" or "Haters!!!!!") and it might actually get people listening.

    People say the same arguments constantly and can't figure out why it doesn't make a difference.
    Well, the first one is kind of just homophobia/hating. "Gay people weird me out and I don't like them" is basically what it says. It's like saying "black people weird me out and I don't like them." There is no argument for that because it's not a very logical criticism. It's just "I don't like it so they can't do it." All I can say is "that's homophobic" or "that's not a good reason to deny people rights."

    As for two, the common argument would be A) the Bible technically calls for gay genocide, not stopping gay marriage (a topic on which it says nothing) and B) it also says rapists get to marry their victims, you can't wear a shirt made of two cloths, you can't sow two kinds seed in the same field, you can't eat shellfish, and not to cut your hair or beard and a ton of other stuff people roundly ignore. Also, we don't live in a theocracy and legal gay marriage wouldn't have to be recognized by a church.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  8. #478
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    I think it should be legal, but if any religious institution does not want to allow it in their church (because it's against their religion), they shouldn't have to (and then gay couples could just get civil marriages).

    I honestly do not understand social conservatives (except for on the issue of abortion, though I myself am pro-choice) - I mean, personally, I am a bit homophobic (I'm not saying that I think gays are inferior or anything, or that I would treat them worse than others, it's just that, like with retarded people, I simply am not as comfortable being around them as other people - one of my best friends is bisexual, so I think I'm justified in saying that I treat non-straight people as equals), but I support legalizing gay marriage and stuff. I don't get why people care so much about the way other people live their own lives.

  9. #479
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Well, the first one is kind of just homophobia/hating. "Gay people weird me out and I don't like them" is basically what it says. It's like saying "black people weird me out and I don't like them." There is no argument for that because it's not a very logical criticism. It's just "I don't like it so they can't do it." All I can say is "that's homophobic" or "that's not a good reason to deny people rights."

    As for two, the common argument would be A) the Bible technically calls for gay genocide, not stopping gay marriage (a topic on which it says nothing) and B) it also says rapists get to marry their victims, you can't wear a shirt made of two cloths, you can't sow two kinds seed in the same field, you can't eat shellfish, and not to cut your hair or beard and a ton of other stuff people roundly ignore. Also, we don't live in a theocracy and legal gay marriage wouldn't have to be recognized by a church.
    1. I think "it's always been around" is a better argument on that one. It IS natural.

    2. So basically they have to give up all their beliefs about religion to accept gay marriage? Do you see how that's not going to be an easy change? There has to be a better way to explain it.

  10. #480
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    @Fireshield it is about perpetuating the culture they grew up in which made them feel good and not recognizing that there are other cultures that people grew up in which were also healthy, well adapted, and made them feel good
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

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