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View Poll Results: Gay marriage rights

Voters
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  • Should be given

    158 92.94%
  • Should not be given

    9 5.29%
  • Could tolerate gay couples, but can't tolerate gay marriages

    9 5.29%
  • Can't tolerate gay marriages or couples

    3 1.76%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Results 461 to 470 of 591

  1. #461
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    From Time:

    Will Black Voters Punish Obama for His Support of Gay Rights?

    The President might be on the right side of history, but he's on the wrong side of a crucial voting bloc

    They say the arc of history bends toward justice. If that’s true then as a nation we’re having a hard time bending on the issue of gay rights. But this week will be remembered as an historic turning point because President Obama threw political caution to the wind and came out as the man who can put principle over politics in announcing his support for marriage equality. “I’ve just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married,” Obama told Robin Roberts in an interview to appear on ABC’s “Good Morning America” Thursday.

    Polls show America is trending toward embracing gay marriage. We now have a thin and growing majority that supports marriage equality. And we have the young Millennial generation strongly in favor of marriage equality while the older Boomers are firmly against. But national acceptance of gay marriage remains a long, hard slog. This week, North Carolina planted its feet in the past by becoming the 30th state to legally prohibit gay marriage and also abolished civil unions, thus enshrining romantic segregation in their state constitution. Separate and unequal in matters of the heart. We should all be ashamed that we’re still restricting civil rights to certain groups of Americans. Barring gays from marriage says their committed relationships don’t merit the protection or sanctity of marriage—an important step both socially and legally. It says their love and commitment is of lesser value. The sanctity of marriage in America has not been compromised by the thousands of married gay couples we already have. The institution of marriage was mocked by the sham made-for-TV 72 day marriage of Kim Kardashian and yet no bill has been proposed barring her from the altar.

    In North Carolina we can see why the President’s position on marriage equality is so politically risky. Despite Presidents Obama and Clinton calling for the Amendment’s defeat, North Carolinians voted enthusiastically in favor of Amendment One with the highest turnout for a primary in 25 years. 500,000 people voted early, another primary record. Gay marriage is an issue that draws people to the polls in droves—even in a state where there was already a law banning same sex marriage. It is an issue that people on both sides of the debate feel deeply and intensely and one that could shape the election. For the President to support marriage equality will perhaps bring in big money from gay donors, will embolden some supporters who were disappointed by his equivocation about gay rights and who will be inspired by him standing up for what he believes. Trying to protect a legally oppressed group of Americans is what the bully pulpit is for. But this step could endanger him in the South and in heavily religious states and with black Americans. Supporting marriage equality could damage his chance for re-election as much as any other issue. It’s one that strikes deep into how people feel about the core values of their nation and their Bible.

    The constituency calculus makes this choice politically risky for Obama. Black voters, who were critical to Obama’s ‘08 victory, are strongly against marriage equality. A recent Washington Post/ABC poll found 55% of blacks oppose gay marriage and 42% support it, which is almost the opposite of white voters—53% support and 43% oppose. This opposition, I think, comes from what many blacks are told by their church. Black antipathy toward gay rights is so deep that the National Organization for Marriage was planning to use it as part of their strategy in their battle to prevent marriage equality. A secret memo revealed their “Not A Civil Right Project” whose goal was “to drive a wedge between gays and blacks.” They would do this by finding and publicizing blacks who’d object to gay marriage as a civil right thus provoking gay marriage supporters into “denouncing [them] as bigots.” The point was divide and conquer: “No politician wants to take up and push an issue that splits the base of the party.” And just like that blacks would become pawns of social conservatives, helping to block gays from a civil right.

    I suspect it might have worked because I usually find that linking the gay rights struggle with the battle for racial justice in any way tends to elicit angry responses from many black people. Many show no empathy for gays as another legally oppressed minority and have no desire to see any similarity between the two historically oppressed identity groups. I hear people talk about how much harder and more violent life has been for black Americans than gay Americans as if there’s an Oppression Olympics. The comparison is irrelevant. Hearing of the legalized discrimination of a group of people should send chills down black backs. We know what that feels like.

    With blacks lagging behind the country on marriage equality but still a crucial bloc for Obama, the White House has made a courageous bet that black voters won’t punish him and that being on the right side of history will not eventually hurt him. Obama has seemed to want to overtly support marriage equality for a while—a year ago he said gays, “are our brothers, our sisters, our children, our cousins, our friends, our coworkers, and they’ve got to be treated like every other American… I think we’re moving in a direction of greater equality and — and I think that’s a good thing.” Meanwhile his administration has repealed don’t ask, don’t tell, refused to back the Defense of Marriage Act, and expanded federal hate crime law to protect gays. Hillary Clinton, in Geneva in December, said, “Gay rights are human rights and human rights are gay rights.” And this week Vice President Biden said he was, “absolutely comfortable with the fact that men marrying men, women marrying women and heterosexual men and women marrying one another are entitled to the same exact rights.” But, until now the President remained cautious about publicly favoring gay marriage. Does this mean North Carolina and other states that are staunchly anti-gay marriage are lost? Does it mean Obama would rather stand on principle and lose than be a politician and win? Or perhaps he sees this as part of a victory strategy that rebrands himself as the courageous politician who will take hard stands and will stand up for the people.

  2. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    That was fast. Maybe, just maybe, too fast.
    I think it's called "nipping it in the bud".

    I do have to say, it was a pretty damning story.

    Independents decide the Presidency, and Independents won't look kindly on it.

    Pulling the mea culpa this quickly might just kill it before it becomes much of anything, tho.

  3. #463
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I think it's called "nipping it in the bud".
    But plants like this long for the sun. Nipping it in the bud before it has a chance to taste the light of day might just incite it to regrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I do have to say, it was a pretty damning story.

    Independents decide the Presidency, and Independents won't look kindly on it.

    Pulling the mea culpa this quickly might just kill it before it becomes much of anything, though.
    I am not surprised that things like the Lauber incident happened. Kids in groups are cruel bastards. It seems rather harmless, too. Of course the US media will try to turn it into something important. The elitist thing that is also apparent in the original article might wear off less conveniently. But, of course, that is nothing new.

  4. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    But plants like this long for the sun. Nipping it in the bud before it has a chance to taste the light of day might just incite it to regrow.



    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I am not surprised that things like the Lauber incident happened. Kids in groups are cruel bastards. It seems rather harmless, too. Of course the US media will try to turn it into something important.
    Yeah, it might've been "harmless", in the sense that the kid wasn't physically hurt (although cutting off a kids hair with scissors while he's struggling is a bit dangerous, imo), it's a completely fucked up thing to do. Of course, considering the times, it is not at all surprising. This was the frickin late 50s/early 60s. All you have to do is watch 'Mad Men' to see the long list of things they used to do back in the day that we sure as shit don't do anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The elitist thing that is also apparent in the original article might wear off less conveniently. But, of course, that is nothing new.
    Yeah, that's almost what I saw as the larger, underlying purpose of the story.

    "Look at the rich kid, Romney; no wonder he wants to lower the rich's taxes; he's completely out of touch."

    Unfortunately, as someone who has been leaning Romney for a while now, I can't help but think it's a bit true.

  5. #465
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    From Time:

    Will Black Voters Punish Obama for His Support of Gay Rights?

    The President might be on the right side of history, but he's on the wrong side of a crucial voting bloc
    The relvant question is: Will the black voters punish him for it in states that he can actually win? That number is missing in the article. Apart from Florida, he has little to lose in the south (if we consider the votes he got in 2008 his property).

  6. #466
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    North Caroline and Virginia.

  7. #467
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Unfortunately, as someone who has been leaning Romney for a while now, I can't help but think it's a bit true.
    Why are you leaning Romney? Because he is not Obama?

  8. #468
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Did you see the response from someone random under the apology article?

    I wouldn't vote for Romney if you paid me, but this is almost farcical. He's in his 60s and he's apologizing for his behavior in high school? Seriously? What's next: "Romney admits to taking extra Halloween candy, and to fibbing about seeing a monster under his sister's bed, back in 1954."

  9. #469
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    North Caroline and Virginia.
    Oh, there those are. Well, that is problematic. But, as Jennifer pointed out in her blog yesterday, the outcome of the recent decision to add an amendment to the NC constitution is not as clear in its message regarding gay marriage as it appears.

  10. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Why are you leaning Romney? Because he is not Obama?
    Because, despite the pandering, Romney is actually a centrist.

    Because Obama utterly failed at being a leader when it came to healthcare reform.

    And because the Democrats will never right the entitlement ship, which is the single greatest threat to our nation.

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