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  1. #51
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    all the productive people would leave!

    Who would leave? Why would they leave?

    Of course, I just made this system up off of my cuff in five minutes. It's not the best system, but maybe better than the morass we are in now.

  2. #52
    Senior Member jimrckhnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InTheFlesh View Post
    We should just assert ourselves as a military hegemon and call it good.
    I think that was tried... didn't work out so well.
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  3. #53
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    They already crunched the numbers, you can take everyones money and there still wont be enough to close the gap. we dont have an income problem we have a SPENDING problem. This is why we need to have less class warfare and rampant emotionalism running the government, it digs the hole deeper.
    Why are you treating this like we take one or the other? We have to raises taxes and cut spending to reduce the debt. That's what crunching the numbers shows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    all the productive people would leave!
    There are already countries with less regulation of business and lower taxes all over the world. Why hasn't everyone left the USA yet?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #54
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimrckhnd View Post
    I think that was tried... didn't work out so well.
    We aren't one? In what ways are we not?

    Edit:

    Here is from wiki:
    In the post–Cold War (1945–1991) world, the French Socialist politician Hubert Védrine described the USA as a hegemonic hyperpower, because of its unilateral military actions worldwide, especially against Iraq; while the US political scientists John Mearsheimer and Joseph Nye counter that the USA is not a true hegemon because it has neither the financial nor the military resources to impose a proper, formal, global hegemony.[11] Moreover, as before, other countries, such as the People's Republic of China, Russia, and the Republic of India, seek to establish or re-establish regional hegemony within their respective, historical geopolitical spheres of influence.
    So really we just fall a little short...I guess. But definitely the US uses military force to secure resources for itself.

    First, they try to bribe the country...give aid or bribe the political leader. Or they get the country to be in severe debt. That way they have to allow economic penetration.

    Second, if they can't be bribed, the CIA or somebody tries to assassinate the leader or overthrow them.

    Third, if that doesn't work, they may invade the country.

    Since the third option...war... is much more expensive, they should keep doing foreign aid.

  5. #55
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Why are you treating this like we take one or the other? We have to raises taxes and cut spending to reduce the debt. That's what crunching the numbers shows.



    There are already countries with less regulation of business and lower taxes all over the world. Why hasn't everyone left the USA yet?
    tons of people have left the US already and more will
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  6. #56
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAJ View Post
    Who would leave? Why would they leave?

    Of course, I just made this system up off of my cuff in five minutes. It's not the best system, but maybe better than the morass we are in now.
    they would leave because other countries would tax them less, and they don't want to be taxed at 80%. believe it or not, productive people don't actually like being stolen from
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  7. #57
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    tons of people have left the US already and more will
    What people?

    Corporations haven't really left the country so much as they've found a convenient way to dabble in different countries simultaneously. For instance, they can exploit many aspects of labor in China, but on the other hand they would not dare completely center their business in China.

    Lowering taxes and regulation isn't going to help. It isn't going to make people stay, and raising it won't make people leave, not a significant amount anyway.

    The alternative isn't even worth it anyhow. I have no desire to compete with other countries by making a race to the bottom.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #58
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    I obsessively spank my cat
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  9. #59
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    What people?

    Corporations haven't really left the country so much as they've found a convenient way to dabble in different countries simultaneously. For instance, they can exploit many aspects of labor in China, but on the other hand they would not dare completely center their business in China.

    Lowering taxes and regulation isn't going to help. It isn't going to make people stay, and raising it won't make people leave, not a significant amount anyway.

    The alternative isn't even worth it anyhow. I have no desire to compete with other countries by making a race to the bottom.
    corporations haven't left because they're benefiting from high taxes, not suffering from. corporations and government are basically the same thing at this point thanks to our bureaucratic legal system and the fact that we allowed them in the first place. corporations are the antithesis of a free market
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  10. #60
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    corporations haven't left because they're benefiting from high taxes, not suffering from. corporations and government are basically the same thing at this point thanks to our bureaucratic legal system and the fact that we allowed them in the first place. corporations are the antithesis of a free market
    There is some lucidity in the bold statement.

    However, I don't see high taxes in the USA as benefiting them so much as being irrelevant, since corporations can and do easily avoid paying most of it at present. I also see that this exchange is probably going down the tired of track of trying to tell me that big, domineering corporations only exist because of government, which isn't anymore true now than it was the last time I had this conversation.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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