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  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by Critical Hit View Post
    More riots in 6-9 months.

    I am calling it right here. Be ready for me to dig this thread up when that happens.
    Another flash mob, this time in Maryland.

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/08/16/...html?hpt=hp_t2

    Flash mobs -- usually announced online in social networking sites, or by e-mails or text messages -- were once benign and entertaining, but recent gatherings by groups of teenagers have evolved into more sinister actions.

    Earlier this month, Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter signed an order moving curfews to 9 p.m. on Fridays and Saturdays for people younger than 18 in Center City, the heart of Philadelphia's downtown, and in University City, home to the University of Pennsylvania and Drexel University.

    Nutter announced the earlier curfew following a string of mob attacks by young people alerted to gatherings via e-mail and social media.

    Parents and minors face hefty fines if caught violating the new rules.

    Violent "flash mob" attacks have also been reported recently in other cities across the country, leading to crackdowns on curfew enforcement and stepped-up police patrols.

    Extra state troopers were ordered in after what was described as a "mob beating" took place at the Wisconsin State Fair.

    Attacks in Cleveland, Chicago and Washington, D.C. have all led to the arrests of dozens of teens and resulted in extra police patrols in and around these cities.

    Montgomery County Police said Saturday's "flash mob" theft was the first such incident in their jurisdiction, but Starks admits he is concerned about the growing trend.

    "I assure you we're taking this crime very seriously," Starks said.

    In England, where riots erupted earlier this month, authorities say social networking sites and mobile messaging services were used as tools to organize looting and violence.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Critical Hit View Post
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/au...P=NECNETTXT766

    Russel Brand wrote a surprisingly insightful article.
    Well reading that drivel is time I'll not get back, that you consider it insightful says a lot about you being a fan of Russel Brand perhaps but beyond that I'm not sure what did you think was insightful? His repeated suggesting that rioting deserves explanation and analysis?

    All the explanation and analysis of the rioting I've read can be summed up as wishful thinking, if it can be explained and analysed then its not just random and simply criminal or crazy, some of the analysis goes even beyond that to hopeful, ie the rioting is a form of protest, a form of social critique, a harbringer of something better, I see no basis for any of that what so ever.

    It is not even as though any spokespersons exist for this period of rioting, unlike genuine protests such as those which were eventually crushed in China when they could not demonstrate any kind of structure with negotiable goals, priorities and an agenda or those in the left's cultural historical memory like '68 in France with Daniel Cohn-Bendit, there's no spokespersons because there's no agenda or anything. Its not politics, its recreation and what can most accurately be described as raising "merry hell".

    The media were all over this like a rash and the two things which kept coming out of the mouths of rioters directly were "We dont care" and shrill screaming that they were being disrespected, with the implication that they where/are automatically deserving of respect, those are pretty intangible things, indicative more of a lack of imagination, insight or maturity than anything else. I dont believe that has anything to do with the abscence of a shared social or cultural identity or anything like that.

    Personally, I believe that there are too many people who, like Brand, were teenage radicals who havent ever developed beyond basic hostility or ambivalence towards authority, whether its the authorities as embodied by police or other public or state bodies or persons and pundits with an acknowledgedly objective and correct basis, those people now in a variety of ways now constitute the authorities or at least the responsible adult population. On the other hand you have a generation of young people with the same anti-authoritarian agenda as years ago, when genuine persecution and tyrannical authorities could have existed, deploying those sorts of grievances against the new weakened and ambivalent legitimate authorities.

    This sort of carry on is terrible because I can understand the anger that the sorts of riot can cause peaceful, lawful individuals who are sick and tired of other people acting like their bitching, boredom or circumstances are their problem, the thing is that if enough of that anger builds up those lawful people will consider the legitimate authorities illegitimate, not because they are too authoritarian but because they are not authoritarian enough and that opens the door for fascism or something so similar as to not matter, it will be a matter of semantics.

    Also, like I've said before, there's huge parallels between this and trolling on forums, people act like dicks, they predictably receive sanctions and then people whine about the exercise of authority not the violation of rules and standards which occasioned it, its as though peoples consquential thinking and personal responsibility have been disabled and this is reinforced by everyone they meet.

  3. #153
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well reading that drivel is time I'll not get back, that you consider it insightful says a lot about you being a fan of Russel Brand perhaps but beyond that I'm not sure what did you think was insightful? His repeated suggesting that rioting deserves explanation and analysis?

    All the explanation and analysis of the rioting I've read can be summed up as wishful thinking, if it can be explained and analysed then its not just random and simply criminal or crazy, some of the analysis goes even beyond that to hopeful, ie the rioting is a form of protest, a form of social critique, a harbringer of something better, I see no basis for any of that what so ever.
    How could this idea be remotely controversial? I mean, any generic sociologist should just habitually treat something like this to explanation and analysis, no suggestions required.
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  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    How could this idea be remotely controversial? I mean, any generic sociologist should just habitually treat something like this to explanation and analysis, no suggestions required.
    Its controversial MP because those who're analysing and explaining the riots already are generally doing so in a manner which involves projecting their own ideas or dilemmas on to a population of people who're unlikely, seriously unlikely, to actually be feeling or thinking in the ways being readily attributed to them, so I think there's a not unreasonable public attitude of lets not analyse it, what is the point to that/who cares what motivated it beyond what is being stated by the rioters themselves, lets just punish the behaviour and make it stop.

  5. #155
    Senior Member knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Its controversial MP because those who're analysing and explaining the riots already are generally doing so in a manner which involves projecting their own ideas or dilemmas on to a population of people who're unlikely, seriously unlikely, to actually be feeling or thinking in the ways being readily attributed to them, so I think there's a not unreasonable public attitude of lets not analyse it, what is the point to that/who cares what motivated it beyond what is being stated by the rioters themselves, lets just punish the behaviour and make it stop.
    hey lark,


    not a personal attack on you, this is just to assess where you are coming from. your white, am I correct? and you are already employed, heterosexual, as well and able bodied. is your nationality or the color of your skin much of an issue for you currently?


    I know these things really matter and influence the way people see things in politics
    9w?

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    hey lark,


    not a personal attack on you, this is just to assess where you are coming from. your white, am I correct? and you are already employed, heterosexual, as well and able bodied. is your nationality or the color of your skin much of an issue for you currently?


    I know these things really matter and influence the way people see things in politics
    I'm sorry what? Are you suggesting that this riot was a consequence of a lot of disgruntled unemployed racially minority homosexuals without jobs taking their grievance to the streets? Because if you are there's two things you've got to know:

    1) the population you mentioned would be an incredibly small percentage of the population;
    2) its exactly what the rioters themselves and their communities choose not to identify as the pretext for the rioting, they were quite explicit about it, most of the small businesses who were victims of the rioters, including the guy whose son was killed trying to defend the family corner shop where NOT white;

    Did you decide the thread had a need of bullshit or what was this random interjection about? Perhaps it influences how you see politics, well and good, all the evidence indicates it didnt have anything to do with the riots, which wherent even political anyway.

    I'd also counsel you to think twice before asking a Roman Catholic from Northern Ireland to consider that they're privileged and the author of discrimination purely by virtue of their ethnic origin.

  7. #157
    Senior Member Critical Hit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    Another flash mob, this time in Maryland.

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/08/16/...html?hpt=hp_t2
    Pfft. Im talking real riots, not sensationalist MSM drivel. Just you watch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well reading that drivel is time I'll not get back, that you consider it insightful says a lot about you being a fan of Russel Brand perhaps but beyond that I'm not sure what did you think was insightful? His repeated suggesting that rioting deserves explanation and analysis?
    No I mean insightful for a shithead comedian. Also what is it with people getting touching about trying to understand why the hell these riots happened? Has analyzing things become a sin now?

    The media were all over this like a rash and the two things which kept coming out of the mouths of rioters directly were "We dont care" and shrill screaming that they were being disrespected, with the implication that they where/are automatically deserving of respect, those are pretty intangible things, indicative more of a lack of imagination, insight or maturity than anything else. I dont believe that has anything to do with the abscence of a shared social or cultural identity or anything like that.
    That what you read in the media because thats the narrative that they wanted to create. ZOMG! BLACKBERRY IS CAUSING RIOTS!

    What all you idiots, on both sides of this issue, seem to be overlooking is THE INCIDENT THAT SPARKED THIS. You can argue abotu cultural identity and benefits all you want, but those things didnt start the riots. They didnt start them no more than Gasoline starts a fire. They FUELED the riots, but the spark that lit the fuel was the police.

    Dig back a bit in to this thread and look at my posts about the corruption of the british police. Its funny how no one is talking about that, its all about the morality of the issue, wether the rioters were good perfect angels or evil little shits who deserve to be water cannoned. There were plenty of people talking about the kid who was shot by the police, even after the riots got out of hand. You just didnt get to see those people.

    Thats why were looking at more riots, because the problem hasnt been solved, it hasnt even been addressed by most people. The police are going to kill another innocent black kid and all the scum are going to rise from the gutters and "raise merry hell". Clearly the problem is with the rioters, thats why they riot every day. Keep dismissing this as "just people being dicks" and ignoring the blatant cause and effect taking place in front of you.
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Critical Hit View Post
    No I mean insightful for a shithead comedian. Also what is it with people getting touching about trying to understand why the hell these riots happened? Has analyzing things become a sin now?
    I didnt see the extras on LOTRs where Gandalf and co. post poned the relief of helms deep to seriously consider what life was like from the perspective of a lowly orc or troll-man did you?

  9. #159
    Senior Member Critical Hit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I didnt see the extras on LOTRs where Gandalf and co. post poned the relief of helms deep to seriously consider what life was like from the perspective of a lowly orc or troll-man did you?
    No but they at least tried to figure out why Sauron was doing what he was doing. You know that old quip about knowing your enemies?

    I also see that you are still looking at the morality of the issue, not at the cause and effect. Its real simple someone does A and then B happens. We dont need to debate about weather B deserves to be shot with rubber bullets or have his benefits taken away, and acknowledging that A at least partially caused B doesnt stop you from throwing B in jail or whatever the hell it is everyone is going on about.
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  10. #160
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    Uh, I hope no one mistakes any of these flash mobs as acts of civil disobedience or part of a fight for social justice. It's bored youth. I doubt the flash mobs are limited to people from disenfranchised backgrounds.

    One thing that I've noticed since maybe the 90s when "gangster rap" became mainstream success is a lot of extremely privileged white people, especially young white males, adopted and redirected their natural aggression to take on a very misplaced "fight the power" stance - because they would need to fight themselves in that case. You see it even more today with lots of suburban middle class youths adopting "ebonics" and emulating rap stars. Then again, rap stars today aren't really fighting anything.

    Anyhow, moving on - the kids in DC are out of control. I have no idea what is going on with DC that people in general are so hickified/ignorant/uncosmopolitan but the kids are fucking nuts especially in the summer. They love to hang out especially in Chinatown and you see kids getting maced/getting into fights/getting arrested on almost a daily basis. I'm not surprised there were flashmobs in DC but I am surprised they were so well organized.

    No doubt that there is an actual sector of society, and this extends to youth, who are underprivileged and disenfranchised.

    Then there is a large segment of idiots that are bored and spoiled.

    Perhaps these two sectors meet and mingle at the flashmobs and the like.
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