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Thread: London Burns

  1. #101
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Maybe it is. In that circumstance, it is my moral judgment that such a feeling of entitlement is justified in all people.

    Yes, but territoriality was tied to spiritual and religious practices in the hunter-gatherer days. No person owned the land - the tribal god or goddess owned the land, and the people fought for the sake of that deity. No one felt entitled to the land, but instead, felt devotion to their tribe and their god. Which is very different from entitlement.

    That's why I brought up the Garden of Eden - with the establishment of agriculture and land ownership, humans had become like gods, and began to act in ways that only gods once did: command people to fight in a person's name, claim exclusive title to a given territory, have people offer food to you in thanks for permitting them to live, etc.

    Nah, I just thought your point was entirely too materialistic. Which seems to be the trend, anyway, so it's probably for the best that we end things here.

    Are you even capable of having a point or are you just completely addicted to contradicting everything, including yourself?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #102
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Intellectualizing with an agenda is problematic. It depends on what the goal of the intellectualizing is. For myself, I have just heard way too much self-serving rhetoric around "acts of social unrest" (over the years, not speaking solely of this thread) that I have a knee jerk reaction. My point is that there is always a better way and that people can never absolve themselves of personal responsibility. Especially if you are coming from a social justice framework, I don't understand how giving people free passes for bad behavior - whether individual and localized or group and generalized does anything but reduce people to base, amoral psychosocial automatons. Or say we are only a product of our environment and our times. First, I disagree with that. Second, I think often people who try to "be the other voice" and give a MORAL validation to acts of violence and particularly riots actually contradict their own aims at elevating a platform for social and economic reforms/justice/equality, etc. I think that far swing to the left is more a knee jerk reaction to people seeming to demonize rioters on a purely individual and conventionally moral basis.

    There has to be more than a "yes this is good" and "no this is bad" conversation.

    Also, I don't think anyone was showing a victimized mentality? The business owners in question in the riots HAVE literally been victimized.
    No one in this thread has been victimized though. The "victimized mentality" I was referring to was yours/the OPs. You started talking about how women do more of the suffering while men do all of the looting, and then you start talking about other people's "agendas" and self-serving rhetoric.
    Which is pretty funny/less than helpful.

    I don't see too many people justifiying the violence, personally. I just see them trying to avoid the kind of knee-jerk responses that you accuse yourself of. They are facile and yet you seem to be using them to assert some kind of moral superiority.

    On a personal level, I find the behaviour of the looters despicable, disgusting and pretty much incomprehensible. I don't really see how that helps anyone though...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #103
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Everyone is someone else's "ruling class" so we're all fucked. Also, once people start rioting it just becomes a violence and rape fest so some of us are more fucked than others.
    Nay, it's a hierarchy not a hula-hoop. The poor will never be in power, will never be a ruling class - as it should be. On the other hand, I'm all for a little bit of chaos here and there.
    This reminds me of 1992.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  4. #104
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    The society we live in has encouraged people to believe they deserve something for nothing - even to the extent of destroying others' livelihoods for it.
    Oh Britain you so crazy.

    that this is going to happen in the U.S. very soon.


    I don't think it will go nearly as well for the looters.

  5. #105
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    on a grand scale, these occurrences are just one result of the trend of decentralization occurring all around the world made possible by the internet. most of the perpetrators are college age students who organize and hide their identity via social media such as facebook and twitter and use these sites along with others as their base of operations. so far, I've heard a few hundred arrests have been made, but most retreat back to the ant hill that is the internet. it's just like how twitter has played a major role in overthrowing a handful of smaller corrupt governments. we are getting to the point where the internet is becoming more powerful than entire countries, thus we are seeing the beginnings of a massive decentralization of power that will probably last for several decades and result in something closer to anarchy.
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    on a grand scale, these occurrences are just one result of the trend of decentralization occurring all around the world made possible by the internet. most of the perpetrators are college age students who organize and hide their identity via social media such as facebook and twitter and use these sites along with others as their base of operations. so far, I've heard a few hundred arrests have been made, but most retreat back to the ant hill that is the internet. it's just like how twitter has played a major role in overthrowing a handful of smaller corrupt governments. we are getting to the point where the internet is becoming more powerful than entire countries, thus we are seeing the beginnings of a massive decentralization of power that will probably last for several decades and result in something closer to anarchy.
    Shock over 'respectable' lives behind masks of UK rioters

    Accused include a student from a wealthy background and people in their 30s and 40s

  7. #107

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    Ha!! There's always liberals who'll discuss rioting like its a game of robin hood because its happening elsewhere to someone else, eejits.

    At the very best people who intellectualise crime and social upheavel are seeking comfort that life isnt so much ruled by chance and random misfortune, you may as well trust to divine providence as valourise these bullying thugs.

    I laugh at armchair revolutionaries imagining that they'd do this or that to any ruling class, especially in this day and age when they'd be able to relocate off shore easier than ever before at the first sign of trouble.

    If you're even serious, which I doubt it, in hoping it'd result in a change for the better I'd remind you that individuals are not institutions, individuals come and go but institutions remain, there's been plenty of attempts to restructure economies and change institutions and norms, some of them successfully, but never anything which threatened the ruling class or stratification into classes per se.

  8. #108

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    I dont know if I posted already, joined in different discussions about this topic in different places, the explanation is simple enough for this kind of thing, its outlaw consumerism and peer validation, in small ways every rioter is a celebrity among their peers, run amok.

    Never before have kids, or even immature adults, who believe they're due respect, service, even material goods, without expending any effort or making any personal sacrifice, been able to rally as quickly with technology and social networks to reinforce their efforts.

  9. #109
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    I am losing what little respect i have for these idiots.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelGadaafi View Post
    I am losing what little respect i have for these idiots.
    What if I was one of them?

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