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  1. #21
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    It's not that bad here. I suppose it might be mentality, even though the last few years there's been an increase of uncertainty and fear, most of us still have that Amsterdam mentality and it catches on to those that come here as well.
    Must be the weed Nah, but I know what you mean.
    I'm half walloon, did I ever tell you that? Like 300 000 swedes have their roots from Belgium and the Netherlands. It's far in the past (when sweden started a lot of cannon foundries and other factories, steel industry. They needed the expertise.)
    Anyway, i'm aware of the mentality ^^ Very NTPish laid-back, somehow. Or it might just be the people I know from there.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  2. #22
    Member Moxiest's Avatar
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    Africans are descendants of Ham, and Arabs of Ishamael. Read the genealogies in the bible... good place to start if you are wondering where the "personalities" or "dispositions" of these people originated. The are the oldest and best genealogies in existence!

    If you prefer NOT to look at this from a biblical standpoint... Africa is one of the richest continents in the world. Easy living for millenia (compared to those who lived in harsher climates with less of a growing season etc.) could have allowed those who are less wise, and who don't look ahead or plan ahead to reproduce in mass quantities.

    I look for the good in both of these groups of people, but rarely see it. I have been the victim of crime/violence more than once at the hands of the more prevalent of the two groups in my country. I have had VERY racist things yelled at me for no reason about my blonde hair and the white color of my skin unprovoked, and quietly said nothing.... forgave the ignorance, and continued to live around and try to work with people of this skin color. I had to leave my home due to extreme and unnecessary violence that the police in my town were too afraid or unprepared to deal with... most likely because I was white, and my neighbors (those committing the crimes) were not.

  3. #23
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moxiest View Post
    Africans are descendants of Ham, and Arabs of Ishamael. Read the genealogies in the bible... good place to start if you are wondering where the "personalities" or "dispositions" of these people originated. The are the oldest and best genealogies in existence!

    If you prefer NOT to look at this from a biblical standpoint... Africa is one of the richest continents in the world. Easy living for millenia (compared to those who lived in harsher climates with less of a growing season etc.) could have allowed those who are less wise, and who don't look ahead or plan ahead to reproduce in mass quantities.

    I look for the good in both of these groups of people, but rarely see it. I have been the victim of crime/violence more than once at the hands of the more prevalent of the two groups in my country. I have had VERY racist things yelled at me for no reason about my blonde hair and the white color of my skin unprovoked, and quietly said nothing.... forgave the ignorance, and continued to live around and try to work with people of this skin color. I had to leave my home due to extreme and unnecessary violence that the police in my town were too afraid or unprepared to deal with... most likely because I was white, and my neighbors (those committing the crimes) were not.
    This is not at all uncommon, but it has nothing to do with the bible or skin color, it is culture and the fact that they come from a real bad environment.
    How they handle themselves here, and that i'd rather we send them home, is one thing. It is UNFORGIVABLE. And it condemns them as a group, since it is so common.
    Pure racism, however, is not... I repeat: NOT the solution.
    It's easy to fall into those lines of thought, I know. I've been the victim of that crap myself. I could defend myself successfully, except for once when I backed away (guy had three buddies and a knife).
    Others I know haven't been so lucky, they've been beat up, raped, robbed and god knows what.
    I know it's easy to think that it's in their DNA or something, but it's not. Really isn't.
    It is a cultural weakness and people from a bad environment. People of that skin color etc that have grown up outside of that culture, or assimilated well into our society, aren't any worse than anyone.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  4. #24
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    Well recently I was watching some videos of Georgian folk music and came across all sorts of interesting youtube comments like this:
    when i see " Georgian Videos " there are always negative comments from Russians and Armenians ..

    But there are always positive comments from Poland and Ukraine = ))
    LONG LIVE GEORGIA FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM, Together and with NATO, we will fuck up those civilian-killing bastards also known as russia
    Look russians!! the whole world loves us and who loves you?? murderers and assassins?? no one,becouse you're wrong against all people you have to fight with
    Then a few negative comments concerning Russian sperm.

    Oh and videoes related to WWII history are often interesting, the Germans are already plotting their reconquest of Eastern Europe.

  5. #25
    Senior Member knight's Avatar
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    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XolQyKdyV0w"]man kills his daughter[/YOUTUBE].
    in the video around 8:10 there was an example of an assembly that occurred at a public school and everyone expected to participate in their assembly and bow.

    I still cant get past the part of the parents holding their daughter down and the father plunging a knife into his daughters chest.
    9w?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    "A ship does not sail with yesterday's wind" - Louis L'Amour

    Despite how cool it was in the past, and I am fully aware of most things since Alexander, the greatness period until the 12th century with scholars continuing the greek tradition, that laid the foundation of everything that is.
    I am aware of the greatness of Persia, the Sassanids, Mesopotamia, Egypt... Most things, like I said.
    Recently started to go deep in reading about the Ottoman Empire, as well. Since I am learning about the 16th to 18th century right now.
    Without a shadow of a doubt, I can say that we up here used to be filthy barbarians, especially during the time where the church forced people not to wash
    I have a burning interest for history, and I have read *a lot* about most eastern cultures. I can't say i'm well-educated on all the varieties of Indian sub-ethnicities and cultures, but I am getting there, too.

    Seriously, I do not criticize what was.
    I just think that what exists there now isn't all that awesome, and it is effectively ruining european society. The islamic part, that is.
    The good part about early islamic culture, especially in Moorish Spain during the 11th century, was that it was fairly secular.
    Islamic culture, when secular, is actually pretty enjoyable. I mean, just think of the food. That alone is worth a lot.
    However, that is overlooking how bad things are right now.
    Because they really, really suck. Riots, like the one in London, is not at all unheard of. It just doesn't get the same media attention.
    There are *huge* problems with rape, violence and theft among the immigrants who come here from the middle east, especially Iraq, and Somalia.
    These people count in the tens of thousands, officially, and there are even more of them here illegally without papers.
    10% of my country is not populated by swedes or other scandinavians, and those 10% make up 70% of the prison inmates.
    Seriously, what do you make of that?

    I'm not fond of thinking like this. I'd just LOVE to accept people and help them.
    I've got many friends who are from other countries, but their parents came earlier (and might I add from better cultures than Iraq and Somalia).
    I have friends from Iran, Thailand, Vietnam, Turkey and Bosnia. Hell, those from Iran, Turkey and Bosnia are even nominally muslim, but they are secularized.
    More importantly, they don't engage in honor killings, rape, theft and violence. They know our ways and our laws and they consider them their own.
    The more uncivilized desert nomad culture of Iraq and... Whatever one should call Somalia... Well, those cultures are NOT pleasant.
    Thing is, all the people who come here tend to gather in the same places because of low cost rental apartments.
    The predominant culture in those areas tend to be the Iraqi and/or somali. All the people who come here from other places will i.e. have their kids grow up in that.
    We never had the same problems with european immigrants or refugees earlier, but those that are still in those areas from other countries than Iraq and Somalia has their kids turned into crap through the environment.
    I can safely say that while there is such a thing as ignorance and that it relates closely with the phenomenon of xenophobia, this is not the case here.
    I have to take part of these cultures every day, since I have lived in those areas for years.
    Outside my window, there are somali children running around and laughing. While they are innocent, funny and cute, I can not oversee what they will become when they age ten years or so.
    Because of the bloody horrors that my own kind have to go through to house them, giving away 17.5% of the entire tax money paid each year by swedes to giving them welfare.
    Seriously, we are paying to have them here. Very, very few countries does that. And they abuse it to no end.
    It is meant as a help to get on their feet, instead they get ten or twelve kids and just live off of social welfare. If they work at all, they generally do it on the down-low without paying taxes.
    It's not prejudice, I see this every day. I do not live at a safe distance away from this.
    I hear and see the crime, the violence, the culture clashes and all the fucked up things that has to do with it.

    SO, don't come jibbering about my ignorance. You probably live in some safe little suburban area in a country that doesn't take in as much.
    Hell, there are mid-sized communities in my country that take on more immigrants from the middle east than the whole of the United States.
    So, respectfully refrain from playing that idiot card again. It's just a cheap trick.
    While I have grown intolerant because I have seen too much, I am not narrow-minded, ignorant or arrogant.
    I understand what you are trying to get at, I just disagree with a lot of the things you are saying along the way; frankly they come across as pretty racist and elitist. To point at ONE group of people and single them out as the root of all problems is a little ridiculous. Sure there are extremists, as there are in any group. Frankly, most of the problems stemming from Islamic countries come from corrupt and extremist governments that hide behind religion and frankly choose to disregard many aspects of Islamic teaching to better suit there agenda. Let's think where we have seen this happen before....
    I'm sorry if you thought I was personally attacking you, I just get very riled up when people decide to see issues black and white. THAT in my opinion is the real problem.
    As for your closing remarks, I do live in a comfortable country. I am also Muslim, Middle Eastern, and have lived in the Middle East. So I feel that I've also seen a lot, at least enough to offer up my opinions.

  7. #27
    Senior Member knight's Avatar
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    hey @tiffany

    the video that I posted, what are you comments on it?
    9w?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    hey @tiffany

    the video that I posted, what are you comments on it?
    I think it's another really sad and disgusting example of an extremist, where people fail to think for themselves. If every person who described themselves as religious followed every single doctrine in the Koran, Bible, Torah, etc, the world would be an even more sad and twisted place. Fact is, we don't live in biblical times and a lot of stuff is outdated.

    Before everyone here gangs up on me, let me just say that my point is that perpetuating hate by continually singling out certain groups as wrong or backwards is not going to get people anywhere. The entire idea of one ethnicity, race, nationality, and so on being "better" than another strikes me as archaic. There are definitely terrible things happening in some Muslim communities but posting things that Tofu562 originally mentioned like "Fuck muslims and arabs! Long live (insert name of European country)!" is wrong no matter what the motives behind it.

  9. #29
    Senior Member knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiffany View Post
    I think it's another really sad and disgusting example of an extremist, where people fail to think for themselves. If every person who described themselves as religious followed every single doctrine in the Koran, Bible, Torah, etc, the world would be an even more sad and twisted place. Fact is, we don't live in biblical times and a lot of stuff is outdated.

    Before everyone here gangs up on me, let me just say that my point is that perpetuating hate by continually singling out certain groups as wrong or backwards is not going to get people anywhere. The entire idea of one ethnicity, race, nationality, and so on being "better" than another strikes me as archaic. There are definitely terrible things happening in some Muslim communities but posting things that Tofu562 originally mentioned like "Fuck muslims and arabs! Long live (insert name of European country)!" is wrong no matter what the motives behind it.
    I have not intention of ganging up but making an attempt understand parts of the conflict and where the cultural clashing is occurring.


    Edit: @tiffany are you from europe?
    9w?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    I have not intention of ganging up but making an attempt understand parts of the conflict and where the cultural clashing is occurring.
    Sorry, I jumped to that conclusion! I realize that I am probably not the best person to be involved in this thread, since it is really tough to stay level-headed when it hits so close to home, haha. It just seems like other people in this thread are very quick to justify their reasons for painting an entire culture in one light. I am not trying to say that every single person in the Islamic community is good, or even that it is true of the majority in many countries. Just that I think it is pretty sad to disregard an entire culture because of that.

    Also, I'm not from Europe! So perhaps my views aren't precisely what the thread was calling for. I actually live in the #1 ranked worst city for crime in the US, so when YourLocalJesus justified their views by saying they'd "seen a lot", I had to hold back. I've also seen a lot of terrible things from certain ethnic and cultural groups in my city, this does not make me hate any of them.

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